Welcome to another episode of the ’Create Your Kindspace’ podcast, with me your host Caroline Laurenson. Create Your Kindspace is all about wellbeing and the different ways in which we care for ourselves and those around us.
Our homes are such an important aspect of our wellbeing. But for many of us, they can be a source of stress and overwhelm when our stuff becomes too much to manage. Today’s guest Debbie Junor from Clean Slate is going to share all her top organising and decluttering tips and also how to approach more challenging things like bereavement, children’s toys and gifting in the run-up to Christmas.
Timestamps:
00:02:08 How Debbie became a professional organiser
00:06:40 Decluttering is not just about hoarders
00:09:44 How to get the stuff out of your home
00:16:54 Debbie’s advice for bereavement and sentimental items
00:21:40 Giving and receiving gifts without the guilt
00:24:33 Children’s toys and capturing memories
00:30:16 The rewards of helping people transform their living spaces
00:32:29 Challenges of running an organising business
00:37:04 The APDO community and professional support opportunities
00:41:25 Where to start on your decluttering journey
00:45:27 Debbie’s kind space and future plans
Links:
Clean Slate Website: https://cleanslateuk.co.uk/
Debbie’s Countdown to Christmas Planner: https://cleanslateuk.co.uk/countdown-to-christmas-planner/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/cleanslateuk.uk/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cleanslateuk.uk/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debbie-junor-90500419a/
APDO the UK’s professional body for Declutterers and Organisers: https://www.apdo.co.uk/
Transcript:
Caroline: Welcome, Debbie. I am so delighted to have you with me. And before we start, I have to confess that I am slightly obsessed by what you do. My whole YouTube feed is just full of people that de-clutter people’s houses. So the Minimal Mom, Cas, the Clutter Bug lady. And I also love the Sort Your House Out show that Stacey Solomon.
Debbie: Stacey Solomon, yes.
Caroline: So that is my confession. I will try and not keep you talking for hours and hours because it is a subject I really enjoy. I feel like there’s something so cathartic, I think, or from a mental health point of view, decluttering and organising and making your home a really special, safe place. So important. So that’s why I’m so glad to have you on the show to help us with this topic. So maybe to kick us off, could you give us a little bit of intro in terms of your background? How did you end up becoming a professional declutterer?
Debbie: Yeah. Well, I’ve been in the oil industry for eight years doing workforce engagement, so always working job around people. And then I’d actually gone back to a night school to do counselling skills. So I did a two-year course at Aberdeen Uni, and I just loved it so much. And I thought, I just want to do something different, but I didn’t actually know what that was. And then when there was lots of redundancies happening, and I decided I was by myself, and I thought, I can take redundancy because I know I can do any job if I have to. I’ll have to do whatever, I would get by to pay my mortgage. So I decided to take the voluntary redundancy, and I actually then got into care because my friend was doing social visits with the care industry, and I thought, right, yeah, I love old people. So I started working there, and then I just got into a few different caring roles. And again, everything was coming back to organising the need for it, the gap in the market for working with lots of the elderly who maybe didn’t have a lot of family, and they were like, What am I going to do?I need to go into sheltered housing. Who’s going to look through all my stuff with me? And I was thinking, God, this is so sad that they don’t have anyone to look through the items with. And my friend who was undiagnosed ADHD, but really struggled with getting her home in order. So every day whenever we’d go around, it would be… we’d have a power hour and we’d say, Right, we’ll have a cup of tea. And it wasn’t because I couldn’t cope, because people always think, Debbie, we don’t want Debbie to come around anymore. She’s a professional organiser. She’s going to be looking at all our houses, looking at our clutter piles, and we can’t cope. So do you want to meet in Costa instead? I was like, there’s a theme going. And I’m like, wait a minute, because, whether people believe me or not, but I generally don’t walk in. When I’m in work mode, it’s completely different. But I just walk in, and I’m just delighted to get a coffee and maybe a bit of cake made for me.
Caroline: Yeah.
Debbie: So I don’t see all that. I just see a busy household that has lots going on.So I don’t ever look at their work tops and go, My goodness, look at that. But it was more my friend really struggled. So I was like, Well, let’s just have a power hour and then we’ll have a cup of tea. And it was more like just getting things like, Why is your kettle here? And then your cups are at the other side…
Caroline: Yeah, it’s just not functional.
Debbie: Yeah. So I was like, you just need to work a little bit. And it was actually my friend who said, You know this is a big thing. You should do this. And I was like, this isn’t a thing. Because to be honest, before my business was launched, I wasn’t a social media person. Now I’m very much dedicated to be consistent.
Caroline: Have to be yeah.
Debbie: You’ve got to be. So that’s when it all came around and I thought, wow, there’s so many different ways in which you can help different people. And I thought, do you know what? I’ll go down and train in London, see what like. And if it works, it works. I know I’ve got the care that I can keep doing. And that’s… you know 2019 then I was fully trained and started practising on friends.So they were all loving me then. They were like, Oh, come for a cup of tea. And I’m like, you want me to start your cupboards, don’t you? And they’re like, well, if you’ve got time. So it was amazing because I worked with loads of different friends and family members. And then I just thought, I think I just need to go for it and launch full-time. And as I say, I knew I had things to fall back on. And the first few years, of course, it takes time because it’s a very small percentage in Scotland, let alone Aberdeen, that know that this service exists. So it was a lot of flyers, speaking at little groups and just getting out that this service, what it is and what I can help you with.
Caroline: How it helps, yeah.
Debbie: And really from then, I look there and I look now five and a half years later, it’s not that I could say it’s too busy, but it is so, so, the volume of inquiries is so high that you actually can’t keep up with it. You can’t get your job done within a month. It’s like you’re always looking four weeks to six weeks in advance now, which is a great place to be. But for me, there is so many people there that need help. And people would say, oh, is it people that have got hoarding tendencies? And I’m like, there is such a variety. I was like, of course, you’ve got people with hoarding tendencies, people with OCD tendencies, people that are addicted to shopping. You’ve got all that. But you’ve also got the NHS that are trying to rehabilitate the elderly back into homes where they can’t actually get around their living room.
Caroline: Yeah, they need it for access.
Debbie: They need it. And then you’ve got busy family members, not people. Is it just women? No, it’s lots of men as well, because your home is, for me, People say, You must have a perfect home. And is it perfection? I’m like, Absolutely not. No. Because for me, a home needs to be lived in. And usually, that’s more happy your home than when it’s, unfortunately, when you work with clients have OCD, that’s what they’re striving for, is to allow themselves to have a clutter corner because they’re so thinking everything needs to have its place. And so for me, it’s about having a lived-in home, but knowing where everything is.
Caroline: That’s it, yeah. There’s nothing worse than when you can’t find something.
Debbie: That is the key. Absolutely. If I say one thing, it’s everything has to have a place because if it saves you five minutes in the morning when you’re getting the kids ready and you can’t find the hair baubles. Or it’s, you know what? They get dressed downstairs. So why can’t we have a little station downstairs that’s got their school clothes?
Caroline: Or their stuff for brushing their teeth?
Debbie: Absolutely.
Caroline: Because that’s always a faff, isn’t it? If they have to go back up.
Debbie: Definitely. Definitely, because everyone’s so individual, and that’s what’s the most exciting thing about my job, is that you never meet two families or two individuals the same, and everyone has different needs and something that will make their life easier. So it’s very unique to everyone. So for me, I just thought, this is so much bigger than I ever thought it would be. It’s grown so quickly. It’s grown so quickly, and it’s more like we need more organisers, especially in Aberdeen and the Highlands, because there’s not enough of us. And once word gets out, I would say my business is mainly… Yes, I’ve got an amazing girl, Hannah, who helps me with marketing, and that’s changed it for me because it’s so It’s hard to keep the ball rolling with everything.
Caroline: Yeah, when you’re actually busy helping clients, then you’re not so busy or you’re not able to promote what you do.
Debbie: Absolutely. And she holds me accountable. I hold my clients accountable. So I was like, I’m the same as you. We’ve all got our skills. It’s just we just need help with different things. One minute, you could be downsizing a family, you could be helping with a bereavement. You could be helping neurodivergence families. You could be just helping busy mums and dads try to just get their house.
Caroline: Yeah, get their space, how they need it to function well so that they know that that’s one less thing they have to worry about.
Debbie: Absolutely.
Caroline: Yeah. Oh, gosh, I love that. You touched on some really important things there. I was nearly laughing to myself when you said about when you go around people’s houses, they might worry about what you’ll think.
Debbie: Did you think that?
Caroline: And I was like, Should I say that? Not that I was worrying, but I was like, Oh, maybe I should tidy up a little bit. We’ve spoken before about my hallway and how just the other month. I like to keep things tidy, but I have this really horrible habit of making piles, and then the pile gets bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger until I’m just so overwhelmed that I can’t even see it anymore. I just block it out. And the hallway, I’ve been saying to myself, I’ll take this to the charity shop, I’ll just put it in the pile. And the pile just got so I was like, I can’t even deal with this. So managed to sort out the hallway, but I still have the sizeable pile in my living room, which is at the window where I would normally put the Christmas tree. So now I’m like, Well, that’s the deadline now. I need to make sure that that’s done. Otherwise, where am I going to put my Christmas tree?
Debbie: It’s good to have a goal like that, but also be proud that you’ve actually created a pile. Some people could take years to create that pile. You’ve obviously thought, Right, we no longer need that item. Let’s put it in the pile.
Caroline: Getting out of the house is so hard. Getting out of the house. What helps? Because there might be other people listening. They’re like, Oh, no, I have piles, too.
Debbie: Yeah. I work with the clients who’ve had their same charity bags in their car for 2-3 months. And for me, it’s like, right, depending on where you live and everything, because you can get British Heart Foundation. There is some charities That will come and collect items for you. So that might be an option. Also then, if you’ve got kids or family or you’re going out for coffee and cake with your friends, see it as right. I’m going to reward myself, but I need to fill my car. If it’s with the kids, I’m always like, make it into a game. If you help Mum, Dad with delivering this to the charity shop, then what do you want to do afterwards to try and encourage? Because then sometimes it’s the kids that keep the parents accountable because they want to go trampolining or whatever, and they’re like, We’ve got to take the charity pile.
Caroline: That’s what we did this week. I did a couple of trips to the charity shop and we also went trampolining. I didn’t personally go trampolining. My daughter did and she was delighted.
Debbie: Yeah. Some of it is like, I’ve got families. It’s not always about you need to hire a professional organiser. I have friends who are accountability partners, and they will literally keep each other on track, and they’ll say, Have you gone to the charity shop yet? No, I’m not going to yet. And they’ll give their self deadlines. And again, it’s something usually that they reward yourself with, we’ve got to get it done. It’s ridiculous. How many times have we spoken about it? And it’s just finding that other person. You don’t want someone that’s going to nag you and get on with you. Because life is busy enough. It’s not like everyone’s sitting doing absolutely nothing because they’ve got so much time. Life is hard, and we generally have more things than we ever have had in the past because easier to get things. You’ve got online, you’ve got places like cheaper shops that you can… Well, I could just buy that. It’s only 2.99. So you tend to have more things within the home, and it does get to that point that it’s not then a five-minute job. So then it’s so overwhelming I mean, it’s like, I don’t have time because that’s like half a day. And I’ve got to get this, I’ve got this, I’ve got this. So it’s about not trying to… Our homes are surrounded by guilt. And so many clients, friends, family members, as soon as they walk into their home after a hard day’s work and they’re looking at their to-do list or they’re looking, Oh, my goodness, I’ve still not done that.
Caroline: The minimal mum, she calls it the silent to-do list. It is so true because you just see, oh, that needs done. That needs done. Why haven’t I done that yet? Why did I buy that? Because I haven’t even used it or it’s not what I thought it was going to be. Now I have to deal with that. I have to manage that.
Debbie: Absolutely. It’s really difficult. And so it is. And it’s also about who’s within your family. You might be a single person, you might have a family. It’s about not having all the responsibility on you. It’s about it doesn’t matter who’s busy or who’s got what role. You have to come together and do things as a whole because it’s just too overwhelming to do it yourself. And sometimes when you can just dedicate, we’re having two hours, that’s it, 10:00 to 12:00. As a family, we are going to blitz this. We’re going to pack up that car. For me, donating goods, big part of my business is giving pre-loved items a second home.
Caroline: Yeah.
Debbie: And I love that. I hate I’ve seen. I can’t cope when I have to go to the recycling centre. I try not to look in because I’m like… I can’t believe it.
Caroline: You see the things that people throw…
Debbie: It’s just really difficult when you know there is so many places and people in your local area that would absolutely love to and couldn’t afford to buy new. So there is places now and it’s great seeing all the recycling initiatives. And it is brilliant. My client, even where she lives, she doesn’t even go to the charity shop. She’ll pop some lovely chairs, she puts them outside.
Caroline: Oh, and people just pick them up?
Debbie: And she watches through a window and people always come and take them. There’s always someone that needs something. It is about finding those places. And that can sometimes be really hard because you’ll go to some charity shops and they’ll say, oh, well, we’ll take this, but we don’t take books and we don’t take kids clothes. And then that becomes, oh, this is too much.
Caroline: Yeah
Debbie: I just want a one-stop shop that can drop it off. So that can be hard as well. And then you end up taking it back and then it gets put back in a corner and you tried, so now you feel defeated. So a lot of it sometimes takes just 5, 10 minutes research. Even me, I am delivering to so many different charity shops and community centres and groups, but I still always I phone them before I come because if they’ve had loads of donations of clothes, they literally don’t have the space to take it. So you go all the way there and they’re like, I’m so sorry, we literally can’t take any. I’m thinking, I’m going to have to store it in my one-bedroom flat. And then it becomes… So then you’re looking for somewhere else. So I always advise, just get your favourite charities or think local, the local nurseries.
Caroline: I was going to say schools and things.
Debbie: The schools are crying. I just delivered loads of old pots and pans to schools.
Caroline: Oh, what good idea. They would love that.
Debbie: They’re crying out. All the mixtures they make, they’re for painting, for cooking.
Caroline: Like play kitchens. Yeah.
Debbie: Absolutely. And it’s really sad that the schools need so many donations. But I gave a school some, couple of reams of paper, and you would think I gave them gold. It was like, we’re desperate for paper. It’s so sad that we’re in the state that they have no budget, but there are so many households who would just see they’re sitting there, or they literally would just be putting it in the bin.
Caroline: Yeah.
Debbie: So it is just about awareness and just taking that extra minute to ask, ask your local community centre, your local groups, do you need this? Or they might know a family that do. And then so you can make some donations that way.
Caroline: Yeah.
Debbie: So I would say that’s the key to try and thinking, right someone else could use these items. Where does it need to go? And making it a group effort.
Caroline: A team effort, yeah.
Debbie: Absolutely.
Caroline: And setting some time aside, even if it is only an hour yeah.
Debbie: Absolutely.
Caroline: Nice. Oh, gosh, that’s a really good advice. The other thing that I struggled with is that a lot of the things in our house originally didn’t belong to me. So my mum lived here with us and still have some of her things. It’s a difficult thing because I feel like in the beginning, there was things that were easier to let go of and then other things that I put in boxes that I wasn’t sure and I thought, I’ll keep them. And then over the years, little by little, layer by layer, I feel like I’ve been able to let go of other things. But I still have quite a few boxes that I’m like, I don’t know what to do with it. I know that they’re not things that I know I want to keep long term. You know those sentimental things. It’s just so hard to know what to do because, yeah it’s part of how you remember them as well.
Debbie: Absolutely. And it is really difficult. And people often think, Oh, you’re going to make me get rid of everything. I’m like, Absolutely not. I am about keeping the important things. But for me, the worst thing I ever did was tell a few friends one year that I’ll keep their card if they write me story because just two Debs love Lisa. That’s not going to work for me. Well, then that’s terrible because now everyone writes me essays and I’m like, I love it so much. But I’m like, I need to keep you. So I am a very sentimental person. I love keeping all my memories. And I always say, you definitely, everyone should have a memory box.
Caroline: Yeah.
Debbie: But a lot of people now are going digital with things as well. Like, Recently, I worked with a nurse, Susan Midwife. She had maybe 20 boxes, cardboard boxes full of presents that she’d been gifted from new mums. And she said it was just lovely. And everyone, she said she felt so close, she didn’t want to part with anything. But they were actually just in a loft, so she wasn’t actually getting use out of them. So what we did is we had a photoshoot, and She obviously didn’t remember everyone, but we took photos. She was in some of them. There was little stories that she remembered about a few of the mums, and she created a photo book for it.
Caroline: Yeah.
Debbie: Now, that’s a photo book that now sits in her living room and she can browse at her leisure.
Caroline: Yeah, flick through it.
Debbie: She was never going to open the boxes. And the thing is sentimental. It’s about thinking about the things that you really like. Is there any things that you have a really special memory to. Because there’ll be a lot of things that don’t really mean anything to you. But it is about, a lot of it is take a picture of it. Is it something… Is there a value in some of the items? And I always encourage clients, get them pieces and sell them and buy something that means something to you and your mum or your sister.
Caroline: Oh, that’s good.
Debbie: Something because, unfortunately, with my job, you get all stages. But a lot of the time when you get to the bereaved stage, everything is just then left. It’s taken down from the loft and all these memories that one really knows the story anymore. And I recently worked with a 91-year-old and 26 grandkids, and no one would help her with her loft. So she googled me and she found me, and we took everything down from her loft, and she made memory boxes for each of the grandkids. It’s a little wee, and she had a little note, and she said, I’m absolutely healthy. I’m not going anywhere. And she just put something in each of them that she remembered that they had a connection with. And there were so many amazing things left. And she was like, no, we’re just going to donate it. I was like, I found it difficult because it’s so much history there.
Caroline: Yeah, someone’s whole life.
Debbie: And she was like, But these are my memories that I’ve lived. And she says, And now I’m passing it on to my grandchildren, and now I want some other people to make use out of my stuff. And I was like, that’s amazing.
Caroline: Yeah.
Debbie: So we donated in different places, and they went to the right place. Because the thing is, a lot of them, it’s great. When you go to a lot of the charity shops now, it’s a lot of students that are all going back to vintage.
Caroline: Yeah, yeah.
Debbie: So they’re not shopping, getting their vases in Sainsbury’s or Next. They’re literally going into the charity shops and getting nice quirky items, old and new. And that’s great to see because I always wonder who buys all the things? Because I know how much I’m donating on a weekly basis to all the places. I’m like…
Caroline: You’ll be like they’re favourite customers.
Debbie: Yeah, Absolutely. So it is just about being realistic with the size of the sentimental items you’ve got, really keeping the things that you think you would pass down, but also thinking… Because museums, there’s loads of different groups that love… We just made a whole load of ration books and things like that.
Caroline: Oh, yeah. Like on a heritage sort of side.
Debbie: There’s so many different things that rather than just lying there. And I think that works on the sentimental, I would say, the other thing that people really struggle with is presents they receive.
Caroline: Oh, yeah.
Debbie: Like the guilt in presents. No, I can’t because Auntie Josie gave me that. No, I can’t because but… And sometimes, if I remember, I pop that vase out when Auntie Jeanie comes round. And I completely understand. I was like, but they got the joy in buying the present from you. A lot of the people, they wouldn’t even remember what they actually bought you.
Caroline: Yeah.
Debbie: But it’s about if that is not for you and it doesn’t fit into your home and you don’t actually like it that much and it doesn’t make you feel, oh, I love it, then it’s okay to just let it go and pass it on to someone else who’s going to love it in their home. Because for you, you end up looking at it and thinking, Oh, there’s thing there. I really don’t like it.
Caroline: Yeah.
Debbie: And that’s a shame as well. So it is about trying to, yes, she got it for a present, but actually it is okay to let it go to someone else because it’s still going to be used.
Caroline: Yeah. I love what you said there about how the person, they got joy from choosing that gift and that joy potentially is enough.
Debbie: Absolutely.
Caroline: They don’t need to… You don’t need to keep it to keep that feeling.
Debbie: Absolutely. I mean the thing with me is people are like, oh, God, you don’t like gifts. And I’m like, I’m such a practical person.
Caroline: Are you hard to buy for?
Debbie: I’m really hard to buy for because I actually would rather… I’m absolutely all about an experience. I would rather you take me out for a cup of tea and coffee and cake, then buy me something like… I can’t even tell you how many to-do list pads that people give me.
Caroline: Because people would think that that would be what you would like.
Debbie: I’m like, I’ve got so many that I hate to say it, but I actually have to donate some. I really like buying things that are useful and what I like. I think more and more so as I’ve been doing this job, I’m really appreciative. But I’m also then thinking that’s, I don’t actually want that in my living room. So I always say, no, no presents. Let’s go and do an experience.
Caroline: Yeah, make memories.
Debbie: You want to go for a massage? Let’s do that. I am all about making memories to the point my sister, they’re all like, oh, you’re a nightmare. And I’m like, I know I am, but I literally would rather spend time and get a physical present because if I need something, I’m okay to buy it myself.
Caroline: Yeah, that totally makes sense. And I think that’s a lot of people feel like that nowadays, don’t they? I think especially since the pandemic and everything that we’ve been through, I think we appreciate our relationships a lot more and our time a lot more.
Debbie: Yeah, absolutely. No, definitely. And as well because it’s coming up to Christmas and that’s when it goes… a lot of toy rooms making way for new presents coming in. And that’s the reality is that, of course, kids naturally I want presents, but it’s always really interesting when you work with children doing toy rooms. And much to the parents’ despair, I always say, right, go and show me your ten favourite things. Go and gather them up. It’s not the big doll’s house.
Caroline: The expensive…
Debbie: It’s usually at least one toy from McDonald’s and they’re like, that’s the toy you’ve chosen out of all of it. And a lot of the children, they’re so overwhelmed by presents that they actually value the space more. And when we actually go through the process and create, might be that little wee craft table with two little seats. They absolutely love it.
Caroline: Yeah, having that space.
Debbie: Absolutely love it. It’s her favourite time. They always talk about it and the wee trolley with all their crafting is much more… and all the different… Yeah, doll’s house, amazing. But some kids have two, three, they’re all different types. And it it just becomes too much for them. They actually don’t know what to play with.
Caroline: Yeah.
Debbie: So yes, I’m very much into trying to persuade grannies to take the children out for a day. One, it gives the mum and dad a break, and also you get quality time, and they remember that outing.
Caroline: Yeah.
Debbie: Because the sad thing is, children never remember what you gave them. A very rare case that the child would be like, oh, yeah, you got this for me, Auntie Debbie. I’m like, wow.
Caroline: Yeah, I didn’t remember that.
Debbie: But usually they’re like, What did you get me? And I’m like, it was £50 and you don’t even remember.
Caroline: Yeah, gosh. Gifts can be really tricky, can’t they? So that’s some good advice. Yes. And getting organised for Christmas as well is sometimes quite a mammoth sprint. So actually you’re probably making your life easier by organising, meeting up with people and doing things together and maybe spreading that out over the festive period instead of it all being like, okay, what can I buy? Yeah.
Debbie: Absolutely. And starting early, and I think we’ve all got such busy lives now, and it’s very rare that you we’re last minute in for a visit or we’re all booked out in advance. But that’s the way it is. And so that’s good. It’s like, right, okay, I never give Christmas presents or birthday presents anymore. For years, I always give experiences. So it is about… It’s about… Because I tend to be the nightmare here because I’m like, my goodness, I’ve done this to way too many children now. So I’m like, when am I fitting this all in? So it does go into next year. But you just get it in. Do you know what I find fascinating, even especially one friend, their sons, I always say, right, what do you want to do? You can do anything you want. They’re like, anything. Because I do it for their birthdays as well, so it’s more summer. And they say, oh, just go to the park and have a picnic.
Caroline: Yeah.
Debbie: I can pay for anything within reason. And it’s all about the time.
Caroline: Yeah.
Debbie: It’s the time. They just love you being there, playing, being present, having some treats along the way. And it always amazes me that they haven’t chosen all the expensive outings that they could have done. It’s more just spending that time rather than the money value.
Caroline: Yeah. It’s also making me think there was an episode of Sort Your Life Out, and they were going through the kids’ toys. And I remember the parents, similar to what you were saying, where they were like, oh, pick your favourite ones to the children. And then the children, and then the children pick their favourite ones. And then the parents were like, no no, we need to keep this one and this one and this one as well, because it held memories and sentimental value to them more than it did to the children. So yeah, I think we always think that… we don’t give our children credit for how good they are making those kinds of decisions. Absolutely. And getting them involved as well.
Debbie: No, definitely. Yeah, that is very, very common. And then you have to separate them items and then speak to the parents, say, Well, this is actually what your children want to keep, and this is actually what you wanted to keep. So let’s just have a look at what have we got here and why is it? And usually it’s lots of triggers from emotional attachment for different reasons. But It’s great. Once you group things together and you start talking about it, it’s always really interesting because then usually the parent is like, you know what? That is ridiculous, right? Definitely keeping the monkey. He’s going nowhere. But actually the other items.
Caroline: Or it could be like you were saying with the lady, the midwife, taking photos of things instead.
Debbie: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I mean, that’s my go-to for everything. And it’s amazing how many families create books, and they get to I actually write the wee story, which is the best bit, because in 10 years time, is your child going to remember what that monkey was? What was the significance with that monkey again?
Caroline: Yeah.
Debbie: So it’s brilliant because they get a wee story and the same big thing for artwork, the amount of artwork that comes back from school on a weekly basis.
Caroline: Yeah.
Debbie: And keep it all, keep it all. I know I was presented with lots of my artwork when I was… as soon as I got my first flat, mum was like, oh, I’ve got loads of things.
Caroline: Here you go.
Debbie: I was like, oh, mum, I don’t need all my primary school jotters and newsbooks and everything I ever drew. So it is just thinking about, Right, what is… realistically, what are you going to keep? And it’s great to have these memories. And again, kids like, I’ve got loads of teenagers who they’ve made one scrapbook out of all their different artwork from primary school, high school. Great. They’ve got that. A lot of people won’t be interested to make a scrapbook.
Caroline: Yeah.
Debbie: So again, they take the photos, they keep it a little album on their phone. One day they might print it, one day they might not, but they’ve got it on their phone.
Caroline: Yeah.
Debbie: So as I say, everyone is different and it works. So that’s what makes it all interesting, and it’s what’s important to you.
Caroline: Yeah gosh. So many amazing stories. It must be so satisfying to help someone on that journey and see that transformation, you know the time that you spend with them and kind of helping them through that process. Yeah, it just must be so rewarding.
Debbie: It is. And you work with so many different people, but it’s such an honour to be able to work with so many people. And it’s not just, yeah, you’ve got your amazing stories that a client who had not been on the top floor of her house and had not got rid of any clothes in 40 years.
Caroline: Wow.
Debbie: I have never seen that many clothes. It was amazing because lots were vintage, but it was such as she’d lost her mum and she just never went back up to that floor again. And that was a massive emotional, amazing job because we completely went through all the clothes. She then created a walk-in wardrobe, and she then created… Because a lot of people are like, well, I don’t really need this room. And I’m like, well, what would you like it to be? I do love drawing, right? Could you see this as your drawing room, looking at your window, painting the hills? Yeah, maybe. Okay, that’s what we’re going to get it to, whether you use it for whatever reason. But she did. She got her all her painting and she would just sit there with her easel and just paint away. And that was like such a… It was always been such a special job because it was so emotional. But also helping a busy mum who… You don’t walk into their home and think, oh, my goodness, this is cluttering. You don’t at all. But in every cupboard, she would have no idea what’s in them. So basically, life is just stressful 24/7.
Caroline: Yeah.
Debbie: As soon as she’s thinking, Right, kids are up, I’m up early, but then there’s all, Where’s the brush gone? Oh, I know I’ve got three, but I can only find one. So it’s, as I say, the impact that the sessions had on her were life-changing.
Caroline: Yeah, but in a completely different way.
Debbie: But in a completely different way. She can now find items. But it was she didn’t have lots of triggers from the past. She just had a really busy life and was trying to manage work, children, and running a home.
Caroline: Yeah, which a lot of people can relate to. We were talking about some of the good parts there. What would you say are some of the more challenging elements that maybe you didn’t realise when you went on this journey to become a declutterer and organiser? Were there things that you found out along the that you didn’t realise would be quite challenging and difficult?
Debbie: Yeah, I think obviously the hardest part for being in, I cover Aberdeen and the Highlands, and there’s not that many of us. So if you go down to London, you pick the organiser that’s right for you. You’ve got people who have loads of… their specialisms might be in working with people with hoarding tendencies. It might be aesthetically pleasing, making my home look perfect and pretty. There’ll be all these different elements, whereas you come to Aberdeen, there’s not many of us, and it’s like, well, okay, I’ll have a look at the website. Who do I think? Who’s got availability? Because it might be, I need that job done in two weeks, or I’ve actually been watching your page for a year and I’m now ready to book in a session.
But you never know what job you’re going into. You can go into when you have your consultation and say, oh, no, I don’t mind. I’m happily let go of things really easily, not attached to anything. I just don’t have the time and I just need the help. Perfect. It’s rarely that the case.
Caroline: Oh, yeah.
Debbie: There’s always something that triggers. Whether you’re going through a wardrobe and it might be you’re now in a new chapter of your life, like you are now divorced, but you find a dress that you wore when you were with your ex-husband on a cruise that you have very fond memories of. And then it’s like, they don’t know what’s happening to them. And I always say it’s such an emotional process, whether it’s toys, wardrobe. It really is cause you just never know when them triggers are going to happen. And sometimes they absolutely don’t. But the main thing as well is when I first got my client who had hoarding tendencies, I was very open and honest to say, no, I’ve done hoarding tendency awareness courses. I’ve done a qualification, but I’m not qualified.
Caroline: That’s super specialised.
Debbie: I’ve got no experience. It’s very specialised. But the sad thing is there isn’t many options in Aberdeen. So I just have to say, well, This is what I’ve done. I’ll be honest, I don’t have any experience, but I’m willing to try and work with you. And then the clients are like, well, really, they don’t have another option. And it’s great. People with hoarding tendancies you’ll work with for years. On a fortnightly basis. You’ll get to a point and you learn so much. And it’s very challenging and very stressful because it’s a highly emotional environment and you don’t know ever what way it’s going to go. And that’s where my counselling skills, I just love that course anyway. But it just really… I always feel like you’ve got to go to a job like equipped with a toolkit. It might be emotionally, or it might be because the client needs other services to keep things going. They might, usually after we’ve decluttered and organised, you want to maintain. So usually you’re hoping that you can get cleaner in place so that it encourages the client to right, I’m going to start putting things away more because they’ve got a place.
Caroline: Yeah.
Debbie: I know I’ve got cleaner coming every two weeks. So I want to the most of the service.
Caroline: Yeah. So make sure the surfaces are clear.
Debbie: So I’m going to put things away. It might be they need a gardener or a volunteering charity that you’ve heard of. There’s so many things, and that helps to build the trust, but also spread word and that also helps with your client because then they’ve maybe got in touch with a volunteering service. They’re feeling even better within themselves. So your sessions are going to get even more value out of them because it is But it’s a journey. So I would say that…
Caroline: Yeah. Building that confidence as well.
Debbie: Building the confidence and just going into any job, always being fully aware that emotions can easily change at any moment.
Caroline: Yeah. And that’s so true, that what people say and then the reality of what they actually need can be two completely different things. And then when you build in the emotional side and the mental health side, it’s a very complex job that you do. And then because there’s a shortage of people that provide your service, you’re having to flex a lot more, you’re having to be far more adaptable, perhaps, than maybe you would like, I guess. Yeah, what a fascinating job. You had mentioned at the start that you had gone, was it down to London to do your training?
Debbie: Yes.
Caroline: So who was it that you trained with?
Debbie: It’s called APDO, the Association of Decluttering and Organising Professionals. And they’re like our governing body. And they’re absolutely brilliant. They’ve been, well, this year it’ll be their 20th anniversary. Started by a couple of organisers down south thinking, if you need to get for insurances and everything as well. And they thought, we need to create something. And it was created just short, this year, as I say, 20 years. And now there’s over I think it’s 450 and 500 members who would all be like sole-traders, limited companies. And as I say, you don’t all have to be part of the association. But when I started, I just wanted… You want some validation as well, because if you had a pound for everyone that said, Okay, but what’s your real job?
Caroline: Oh, god.
Debbie: And I’m like, No, this is my real job. I’m a professional organiser. Really?
Caroline: People pay you to do that?
Debbie: I didn’t know. Who’s going to pay you to do that? And I’m like, well, exactly. You would never be my clientele. You can obviously do things yourself and we all have our different skills, so you probably don’t see the value in what I do, and that’s absolutely okay. I just can’t believe people pay for that. I just can’t believe it. Full-time? Yeah, it’s extremely busy. Phew, god.
Caroline: Yeah.
Debbie: But when you tell them as well, Yeah, I’m part of an association.
Caroline: Yeah, it’s professional.
Debbie: There’s more yous. And of course, we get… there’s so much support you get. And then every year, you’ve got your annual conference, and you’ve got speakers from all over the world. And it’s such an amazing learning environment [yeah] to meet like-minded people, but also just to hear other organisers’ stories of how they’ve done, what they’ve done, where they want to be, do they want to expand, do they want to stay by themselves, and learning new things because there’s so much involved. As you say, it’s not just you’re going there to declutter and organise someone’s home. There’s a lot of the psychology of it, the why. It’s not about, oh, well, I don’t understand why they can’t just put that stuff and put it into the donation pile and take it away. I just don’t understand it. It’s like, you’ve got to… anyone can organise and put things in a place, but it’s the actually asking, why can’t they do it? What is stopping that person? Emotionally, why? Because that could change their lives if they can… Because a lot of times, sometimes I’ll be working with… There’ll be like a triangle. They’ll be a counsellor, they’ll be myself, and they’ll be the client.
Which is just brilliant because you’re putting in place the practical and the support. And then you’ve also got the counsellor trawling back through why are you like? Why do you feel? What’s the trauma usually…
Caroline: Yeah. If those things are coming up, they can get support for that too.
Debbie: Absolutely. …from the past. So this association just brings us all together. And also when you’ve got jobs that you’re like, I’m not actually quite sure how I will we tackle that…
Caroline: Yeah. You can get support.
Debbie: …because I’ve never done I’ve never done anything like that before. And then you go on to your forums and you’re like, oh, my goodness, someone’s 100 times over done it. So yeah. And again, a lot of the organisers in Aberdeen, not everyone’s part of that association, you don’t need to be. But I find I get a lot more work. And some people who really know who they’re looking for, sometimes they want someone from that association.
Caroline: Yeah.
Debbie: They validate it and they think, right, that’s the governing body. They’re paying for that membership. I want someone to do that. It doesn’t make us any different from the other organisers that are doing it. It’s just because there’s a lot of different training courses out there, and some of them, I’d love to do them all. They’re so good. But we try to be supportive in Aberdeen. Again, we don’t get that much time, but there’s quite a lot, 10 of the organisers, and try meet and just help each other.
Caroline: It’s sharing good practice, yeah.
Debbie: We’ve got a WhatsApp group, and if there’s any jobs that we can’t do, we want to help as many people as possible. So it’s like, right I can’t manage, but is anyone available for a job that needs done?
Caroline: Yeah, if it’s urgent. Yeah.
Debbie: So no, it’s a really nice, supportive environment. I really love being part of that.
Caroline: Yeah, it sounds like a really supportive community. Gosh, we have covered so much, haven’t we?
Debbie: I would say if my one piece of advice to anyone would be, people always ask me, I don’t know where to start. How do I get started? You might not be in a position that they can afford to employ a professional organiser. And sometimes you really need to watch asking family members or friends. They need to be quite a non-judgmental person because that could be hard. A lot of times I will come in after the family have done round one. And it’s like, oh. But for me, it’s like start small. What people do is they think, right, I need to do my whole house. I’m going to start. I need to do this whole room. And then I need to move on. And then they get so overwhelmed. And then… it’s a standstill.
Caroline: It’s worse than when they started.
Debbie: And it’s such a stressful experience doing it yourself. So it’s like, start small by just taking one drawer. And the thing is to work, the big thing is people think, oh, you have to buy all this storage. That’s the big thing. And if I’m doing a kitchen, I’m not going to lie, I do go equipped with my storage solutions as well because I might only have one day to do that job. So I’m going to do the declutter and I’m going to come with some solutions as well to make life more functional in the kitchen.
Caroline: Yeah, even if it’s maybe temporary.
Debbie: Absolutely. But when you’re doing it yourself, I will say, don’t worry about the organising part and where the final place is. It’s the declutter that’s the most important. Work your way around. So take your drawer, have a look, right. It doesn’t matter that the drawer is full of things that still might not stay there. It’s about removing the items you no longer need. So then when you… and you can start grouping because you might think, oh, there’s Sellotape in that drawer. Oh, there’s Sellotape there, there’s Sellotape there, oh, six different locations.
Caroline: Yeah.
Debbie: So just grouping things together and just taking it in bite-sized chunks rather than thinking, I want to achieve the whole room and I’m going to do it all in a day. Yeah, it’s too much.
Caroline: Yeah. It’s too much.
Debbie: Because life happens and someone’s interrupting you. There’s a phone call, you’ve got to do something for work. So what people sometimes do is they never go back to it because they think, no, I couldn’t do it. I tried and I failed. It’s like, no-no-no, you did great because you did one drawer. And it might be the next day, it might be a week’s time. Set yourself three months. If it stayed like this for quite a long time, just if you’re a goal person, set yourself a little deadline, knowing that don’t be hard on yourself. That can change.
Caroline: Yeah.
Debbie: Things come up and just work away. And if it’s things like, I want to try, oh the recycling bin goes out on Wednesday. Do you know what? See, by Tuesday, I’m going to try and get to a little pile that might perhaps go to recycling, pop it in the bin. So just little things and baby steps.
Caroline: Small bursts
Debbie: And honestly, you will get there. And then you’ll just feel that sense of achievement. And you might not have completed your whole house, but you’ve done little bits. As you see, the small bursts are the key.
Caroline: It will all add up as well. It’s just making me think that in September, Cas from the Clutter Bug did a series where every day in September, she set a timer for five minutes, and then it was a different area of the home. So for five minutes, you might do a drawing in your house, or you might do a quick pass in your bathroom and see what’s in there that you can declutter. It was five items, in five minutes, whatever came first. If you got the five items in less than five minutes, stop. She was like, don’t keep going because you’ll burn yourself out and just do it consistently for the 30 days, and then you’ll have a much better space, and you could potentially then carry that on because you’ve built more confidence.
Debbie: Absolutely, yeah. Because it’s exhausting decluttering. It is emotionally making so many decisions.
Caroline: So many decisions.
Debbie: It’s so difficult. People say to me, you can go on forever. But I’m like, I’ve got an easy job. I’m managing it and actually you’re physically, you’re having to mentally make them decisions. It’s so draining. So yeah, and what works for one person doesn’t work for everyone.
Caroline: That’s so true, yeah. That is some really good advice to hopefully inspire people. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. All of my guests I have on the show, I love to ask them to get a peek behind the scenes a little bit more as well. So the question is, how do you create your kind space? So what are the things that you do outside of work that help you if you are feeling a little bit out of balance?
Debbie: Yeah. So my kind space does start In my flat. I live in a one bedroom, and unfortunately, my unique selling point to my business was donate to lots of different places, which meant sometimes in the interim, you have to take items into your home to organise it to be distributed. And sometimes that can actually, when you’re busy, you haven’t got time because you’re starting at 8:00 and there’s no places open before then. It really affects me. It’s nice, I get a reminder of how my clients feel, but when I walk into my flat, I do constantly see my to-do list because as much as I’m great for other people, I don’t prioritise my to-do list. So for me, it’s like, oh, gosh, I’ve still not done that. So my kind space is creating what people would call a clutter corner. I like to put the things that I need to do. I put it in a corner and I put a blanket over it.
Caroline: Yeah, like screen it off
Debbie: And I’m okay with that. I’m absolutely fine. When I walk into my flat like I did last night because it’s a lot going on, I was like, right, I need to start tomorrow night and I need to clear this and start getting things away. Because for me, that’s really stressful to be constantly thinking about my to-do list. But for me, my space is also to my body, because for me, my body is my business.
Caroline: Yeah, it’s a physically demanding job you do.
Debbie: Physically demanding, and I constantly I get my massages. And what changed my… I love, is reflexology. Is literally my two things I maintain on a monthly basis. ANd I genuinely feel that’s what helps me to keep going, feel physically fit. And of course, you might be eight hours in the loft and you come down, you’re like, oh, my goodness, my body’s aching. But I believe that I need to keep my body as relaxed and take care of it as much as my physical space. And then the last thing is coffee and cake for me. So if friends want to meet me, either have to help me with my charity organisations or we go for a coffee and cake.
Caroline: Yeah. Gosh, we’ll need to go for another coffee too don’t we. Nice. Oh, that’s so amazing. I think definitely prioritising, looking after your body is something that a lot of people identify with. Yeah. Making time for yourself. And when you were speaking, it was also making me wonder, what’s next for your business? With Clean Slate, would you love to have a space that was separate that you could put the work things?
Debbie: Yeah, I definitely think so. For me, there’s, again, when you’re so busy trying to do the work, is I’ve got so many plans, but do I actually take them forward? That’s why, again, I’ve got the lovely Hannah who’s helping me with my marketing plan because I want to be able to help more people. So I definitely do need to expand. It’s about taking that time to find the right person, because for me, you can train people to organise a space, but you need to have the people skills. And that’s what’s so important for my business. It’s not about having all the pretty home with pretty boxes. Mine is not. Mine is about being functional and just making life a little bit less stressful. So for me, it’s about finding that right person to be able to expand. We started more downloadables. And again, I’ll send you my links, but I’ve got one that we’re launching soon of the… like a festive checklist to start.
Caroline: Oh, perfect.
Debbie: So that’s going to come nicely in week by week. And some people are like, Debbie, I’ll be doing it on week six. I’m like, That’s absolutely fine. But there might be one person who… Because I’m not the start of the end of October. I’m middle of the road. So that’s where people are, I thought you would have started in June. I’m like, Oh, no. So it’s just some things work for others. So these checklists help some people just to, right what do I need to get organised, what reminders.
Caroline: It’s quite satisfying to tick things off.
Debbie: Yeah. Absolutely. I mean I would, even if I’ve done the job, I’m like, oh, that wasn’t on my list. I’ll write it down and I will score it off and I feel great.
Caroline: Yeah, Christmas checklist. That would be perfect.
Debbie: Yeah. So that thing’s all be coming. And I think just creating more, you know my newsletter and everything and trying to create a few more courses in the future.
Caroline: Yeah, helpful resources.
Debbie: Absolutely.
Caroline: Yeah. Making it accessible.
Debbie: Definitely.
Caroline: Nice. It would be so amazing if you could expand and have apprentices that you can help to train up. Absolutely. Amazing. Thank you so much.
Debbie: No, thank you for having me. This is just so good.
Caroline: Yes. You’ll have to start a YouTube channel and then I can binge watch all of your content as well, because…
Debbie: I know. One day.
Caroline: Tuesday is the day that the Minimal Mum videos and Cas from the Clutter Bug, they both publish on a Tuesday, usually. So that is the day [that is the day, that’s the day] where I binge watch all of my deep cluttering shows.
Debbie: I know. One day, I’m like, the camera and myself, we’re not best friends yet. So I’m sure it’ll come. It’ll come.
Caroline: Oh, thank you again.
Debbie: No thank you so much. It’s been lovely.
Caroline: In all the excitement I forgot to ask Debbie to share her contact information and social handles. But you’ll find them in the show notes along with a link to the Christmas planner worksheet that we talked about. There is something so very freeing about letting things go, but often that can be hard to do on your own, and so I can see how working with someone like Debbie would make such a massive difference and kind of help you get back not only your physical space but also lighten some of that mental load too. So I really hope that you enjoyed this episode and you’re able to kind of implement some of the ideas that we talked about.
Caroline: Thank you so much for listening all the way to the end, before you go, I have a little favour to ask, so if you’ve liked this episode, please screenshot it, tag us on social media @createyourkindspace and maybe share what your key takeaway was from the episode. It would also be so wonderful if you could rate and review this podcast as it helps other people to find it. Thank you so much.
Disclaimer:
The information on this podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. You should seek the advice of an appropriately qualified healthcare professional before making decisions about your own circumstances. You should not disregard, or delay seeking professional medical advice because of any information contained on this podcast.
Unless specifically mentioned on the podcast, Create Your Kindspace and Caroline Laurenson do not formally endorse or have any affiliation with any product or service mentioned in the podcast. The opinions and content provided and/or shared by any third-party guests, any third-party material or third-party website referenced in this podcast does not necessarily reflect the opinions or policies of Create Your Kindspace and Caroline Laurenson.
