Today on Kindspace I’m delighted to introduce you to Gemma Burns, a life coach and author of the book “Dare to Grow.” Gemma shares her personal journey, including losing her brother at a young age, becoming a single mother, navigating her career and finding a path to personal growth through coaching. Keep listening to find out more about techniques to identify core values, self-reflect and define those small steps to achieve your goals.
Timestamps:
00:02:17 Gemma’s Background and Path to Coaching
00:05:42 Challenges of Balancing Work, Studies, and Motherhood
00:08:51 Developing Study Techniques (Mind Maps, Memorisation)
00:14:41 Exploring Core Values and Self-Reflection
00:20:55 Imposter Syndrome and Accepting Positive Feedback
00:26:07 The Importance of Not Comparing Yourself to Others
00:28:51 Techniques for Goal Setting
00:32:35 Managing Grief and Difficult Life Transitions
00:39:38 Using the “Gap Analysis” Tool to Identify Growth Areas
00:41:43 The GROW Model and WOOP goals
00:47:40 Coaching and Building Resilience
00:57:28 Finding Contentment and Pursuing Passions Like DIY
Links:
Website: https://www.lilibetcoaching.com/
Dare to Grow book: https://amzn.to/3QDyWXE
What can I say to Alexa book: https://tltechsmart.com/what-can-I-say-to-Alexa
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gemmaburns-lilibetcoaching/
Transcript:
Caroline: So one thing I love about meeting people and doing these podcasts is hearing about their journeys and how they’ve overcome challenges or turned their lives around. So I am delighted to have you, Gemma, on the show because you definitely fall into that category. And not only that, but you’ve written this amazing book, Dare to Grow, which is a way of, I guess, helping other people on that journey and how they develop and grow. And of course, we’ll delve into more detail on the book as we go through our chat and some of your tips around coaching and life and all of the things that happen in our crazy lives. But first of all, I would love it if you could tell us a bit about your background and how you got into coaching and the HR side of things as well.
Gemma: Absolutely. So just first of all, thank you for inviting me on. This is a great opportunity. I’ve not done a podcast before, so this is great for me. So I have been in HR for almost 20 years, actually. I left school with not very many qualifications I’d had quite a difficult childhood. We lost my little brother to leukaemia when he was just eight, and I was just close to 12 at the time.
Caroline: I think we have a helicopter going past. It’s so hot today that I have left the patio doors open and we’re kind of on the flight path for the helicopters as they’re going out to the oil rigs offshore. I am so sorry Gemma, but it’s like, oh my gosh, it’s so hot. I don’t think we can sit in here without…
Gemma: Yeah, we do need it open. Absolutely.
Caroline: So you were saying about your brother.
Gemma: Yeah. So I had just started secondary school, and understandably, it was an incredibly difficult time for my parents, and I’ve got an older sister as well, Wendy. So I guess secondary school was not the easiest of times. And looking back, I guess, had I had opportunity to apply myself more or, I guess, you know having a… I was going to say stable a bit more, I guess, calmer home life at the time it may have turned out differently, but the thing is I left school with, I think it was just three Highers, no opportunity to go to Uni. A lot of my friends were going there. I went to Robert Gordon’s College, and there was this expectation that most people would come out of there, go straight to uni, and you would be a doctor or a lawyer or you know something equally as impressive. I just didn’t fall into that category at the time. I started in the working world as an office junior, actually. So answering phones and making tea and coffee for people and filing. But I just progressed through the working world. I had my first daughter, Rhianna, quite young. I was 24. At the time, I was working as a sales coordinator at, and funnily enough, for a helicopter company.
Caroline: Oh, yeah.
Gemma: At the time. So it was just within that job that I became friendly with the HR manager at the time. And it just gave me that insight as to what HR was. And I decided to put myself to College and do the CIPD certificate and personnel practise. So it was evening classes. My daughter was only one at the time. I’d just gone back to work part-time after my maternity leave. And it was just from there, really, that I progressed through HR through time, so just through the different levels of HR, but eventually got to advisor level. The kids were three and seven at the time. I managed to secure a role as advisor, but it was progression to HR manager, and they were going to put me through my post-grad. Now, the panic being that the normal pathway to do a post-grad degree is that you’ve got an undergrad, which I didn’t have. I didn’t even have the Highers that would get me on to an undergrad. But thankfully, because at that point I had been in HR for eight years, I had an interview. And just through the application of doing the practical side of the job and actually understanding it, they allowed me onto the course.
Caroline: That’s great, yeah.
Gemma: It was such a relief. It’s definitely one of the biggest proudest moments for myself to be able to say that I was able to go in it. By no means it was easy. I had a three-year-old that would wrap herself around my legs as I tried to go out to evening classes, going to the library at the weekends. So it was really tough. And it’s funny at the time, a lot of people was like, How can you do that? You work, you’ve got two kids, and you’re doing… I’m like, I don’t know, just do. And I look back now and think, how on earth did I fit that in to such a hectic lifestyle? But I think sheer determination of I’m going to do this. I’ve got an opportunity, and I want to just grab it with both hands. And it did take a lot of hard work. It by no means was easy. I failed the first, I think, two assignments, and I was like, I can’t do this. I’m not smart enough. I’m not able to do it. And it was that self-doubt, which I guess in a lot of cases, and I’m sure there’s people that are the same, but it’s those cases of doubt that you go through that you then find that strength to go, No, you know what? I’m going to do this. And it makes it so much more, I suppose, much more of an achievement and a proud moment for yourself and that personal growth to be able to go through that journey of fear. I’ll cover that when I mention my book later, but there’s definitely that progression that I’ve gone through that I now understand. I’ve done through stages of my life and gone through that, going past the fear barrier into that personal growth element. A few times in my life, I just actually hadn’t realised that that is what I had done, and that’s how I’d enabled that growth. So yeah I got my post-grad, and a year it so later. Well, the course was two years. And oddly, I talk about the achievement, but my final exam, and I worked so hard studying because I do not absorb information. I’m not a reader.
Caroline: Oh yeah, me neither.
Gemma: It’s difficult because I’m not an audio learner. So if I tried to listen to an audio book before I know, I’d be looking at the window.
Caroline: Distracted
Gemma: Yeah, absolutely. I am more than sure that I have got traits of ADD, just a more awareness of how it presents looking back now, but I absolutely cannot just listen to something and keep my attention. Reading, it depends on the topic I guess, which is common, but certainly I would probably have to read something a few times before it would absorb. So I found that the mechanism of mind maps really helped.
Caroline: So you did that when you were studying?
Gemma: Yeah. So I would put down… It would start big. So you would have the topic in the middle and then branches coming off. And I’d literally pretty much write everything down and fill the page. But then write it out so many times that I could then just reduce what I was writing on the page for the mind map. So I’m trying to think of an example. But if there was a theoretical model that I had to learn and say there were four different elements to it, and the first start of the letter didn’t make any obvious word that I could remember. I would make a sentence. So say it was T-S-I-S. I would go, The sun is shining. And I would remember T-h-i-s, the sun is shining. And that was the first letters of that model. So it would reduce down. So all I would see is T-H-I-S. Sorry, T-S-I-S. And it was enough of a trigger, but that would take quite a few stages to get to that point, and it was literally writing it over and over and over again until it got into my brain. I also recorded it audioly onto my phone. When I was driving in to work, I would play it and say it out loud. Honestly, if you pass me in the car, you would wonder, it’s not, cause I wasn’t singing. I was just talking to myself. So I’d be just saying these things over and over until it was in my head. And what I actually did in the final exam, it was four hours long. And honestly, I don’t think I’ve written that much. And you know we just don’t write. For that length of time, my hand was killing me.
Caroline: That’s it, I remember my project management exam, I was literally like, oh, my gosh, my hand is going to break.
Gemma: Yeah, it was so tired. I was like, I actually got a cramp in my hand. But what I did was when I went into the exam, before I even read anything, I pulled the exam paper apart and drew my mind maps on the paper. So I had it in front of me. So just got it out of my head. So I then had it. It’s almost like a reference, I guess. So throughout the exam, I was able to then look at what effectively was the notes that I pulled out of my head in front of me.
Caroline: You made a little cheat sheet.
Gemma: Yeah, I guess it was. And it just… That method worked for me. But being able to get past the… And in that final exam, I got a B, which is great. But then I looked at… This is just a trait in me, and I have learned to have more discipline around this, is that I was 2% away from an A. And rather than going, I got a B in a final exam, that some people may have completely failed. It was a great achievement. But I was in tears to my husband at the time. Because I’d got… Honestly, because I was crying, he thought I’d failed. And I got a B and he was like, Why are you crying? Because I was 2% from an A, I should have got an A. And he thought, Oh, my goodness.
Caroline: Because you’d worked so hard as well.
Gemma: And it was the way my brain work. I was like, But what did I do wrong? That I didn’t get the A. But it’s that achievement of actually getting a post-grad, as I say, with two kids working at the same time. And it wasn’t an easy time. And it was a sheer determination, as I say, or stubbornness, some people may say, to actually get to that point. And it was just from there that I progressed with management position in HR. And then did that for a good few years. Luckily enough, to get into companies that were global, I was HR business partner for Scotland and then progressed to HR business partner for the UK. And then I took on the US after that as well. So it just progressively grew as I got exposure. I just saw HR as… I love being able to help people, but to be able to have that strategic element of a job where you can really make a difference, is what I truly enjoy. The commercial understanding of the business and being able to say right What makes this tick, what is the structure, but also what is the culture of the business? Because I’ve seen from different companies that I’ve worked within that it’s different everywhere that you go. It’s the choice of whether you continue to cultivate what is there or if there does need to be some transformational change in order to make it a more positive workplace. But being able to identify that and then find the methods to do that and see it transforming I just find so rewarding to be able to see people that are happy within their jobs. Because to me, it’s so important. I’m in my forties, and I look back and think, how many times did I stay in a job or put up with something in a situation in my life where I truly didn’t feel content or happy, but something stopped me from making that change? And whether that is… I mean, there’s always… There may be elements in your life where you really cannot due to financial situations or other responsibilities that you have. And that will always be a consideration and the reason that a lot of people do end up being stuck somewhere. But at the same time, it doesn’t stop you exploring what your options are and making small changes that can then enable you to be happier, whether that is at work, at home, in a relationship, whether that is just with romantic relationships or friendships or with your children. There’s definitely been a learning for me that over the years and you know to see that you do change as you get older. I’m not the same person I was 20 years ago in my 20s thinking that I knew everything. Everything was so… I can’t think of an exact situation, but certainly things that I would see as really not important or a big deal now at that time would have been. But then that’s fine, because at the time, it was more important to me in that stage of my life. I didn’t have kids yet, or I didn’t have a mortgage to pay, or there was other things going on. So your focus will change as you get older. And one thing that I’ve learned as well is that, and I touch upon that in the book, is that if someone had asked me five years ago what my core values were, I actually would have gone, eh, em, I’m not sure.
Caroline: So even at that stage in your life, you weren’t sure? No.
Gemma: And if somebody had then asked me appropriate questions to then get me to realise what my core values were at that point, I’m like, oh, what if I just said something about my beliefs or what’s important to me, whatever, then you’d be like, well, that’s a core value. I’m like, oh, okay.
Caroline: Just rephrasing it, yeah.
Gemma: Yeah, absolutely. It was getting some understanding about who you are as a person and aligning that with whatever situation you’re in at the time. As I say whether it’s at work, at home, with your children. It really does help to get you on that right pathway. So what I have seen myself doing over the years, and I say it did take a long time for me to progress within HR, but I think getting that understanding of being at entry level of the profession has given me a much better understanding as to how it can work or should work, but then also being in different positions within a business as well as to how an appropriate conversation should be with different individuals within different disciplines or levels of management. It just helps to, I suppose, have more of an understanding so that you get the best approach or the best way to articulate yourself. You can articulate yourself in a different way depending on the audience or the individual that you’re trying to have a conversation with and I always try and adapt myself to whoever I’m, try and get to know people that I’m working with or coaching so that I can feel that I’m having the appropriate conversation with them or asking the right questions for them to frame it in the right way so that they understand what it is that I’m trying to get them to think about.
Caroline: That’s the really powerful thing about coaching, isn’t it? It’s really those questions that hold up a mirror, almost, isn’t it? Where you go, oh. Whenever I’ve had any coaching, it’s almost like you go into it thinking that they’ll give you the answers. And then what you realise is, no, you have all the answers, but sometimes you just need someone to help you look at things from a different perspective.
Gemma: Absolutely.Yeah
Caroline: So with your coaching, so you have a Lilibet Coaching. Yes. The people that you work with, are they generally, people that are working in a corporate environment that are looking to grow and move through their careers, or is it a mix of different people?
Gemma: No, I’ve actually had a mix. When I first did my qualification, it was actually with the aim, initially, because where I worked, being a senior member of the HR team, we were rolling out a coaching culture within the organisation. And the aim of the organisation at the time was to have internal coaches so that employees would have somebody to go to to help them progress, identify barriers, and then get through that professional side. Now, what we actually did, because what was recommended at the time was full life coaching. So we did the qualification for full transformational life coaching so that it enabled us to be able to say to people, you know. It’s so true because somebody may have a barrier at work that they can’t see themselves progressing. But a lot of the time that self-doubt or that barrier or whatever that looks like for the individual comes from somewhere else, which would be potentially something at home, something from a previous role.
Caroline: Yeah, past things that have happened.
Gemma: Yeah, absolutely. So being able to explore and enable conversation around the full life cycle. There’s a tool that’s called the Wheel of Life. So that is all the different elements of your life. So there is, say, health and well-being, your social aspect, your career, personal growth, relationships, and financial. There’s so many different elements that make up our lives. So it’s exploring all of those. Maybe not all of them within the workplace, but certainly exploring different areas to identify what the individual’s barrier is. So one that’s common, I would say, is that someone will constantly push themselves within the workplace and feel that they have to do more to prove themselves. Yet their peers, their managers, they all think they’re doing a great job. And that individual continues to question themselves. There was an individual that I was coaching that did suffer a bit of what we would call imposter syndrome. So just doubting your abilities regardless of the positive feedback that you’re getting and feeling that somehow you’re going to be found out that you’re actually not as good as what people think you are. Very common. I’ve suffered with it myself. I do think that personally having the discipline to go, right stop questioning yourself so much, accept what people are saying. But there is a small element of that I think has helped me to keep pushing myself. I think a small element is healthy, personally, because it will allow me to not get, well, as you say, too big for your boots and think that you’re great at everything because it’s good to still remain grounded.
Caroline: But if it’s a constant worry, it’s not…
Gemma: Absolutely. It does eat people up. One thing that I would say is that, what is it that you need to feel… you can accept positive feedback? So if somebody is saying to you, you’re doing a great job, what is it that’s stopping you accepting that? And just giving someone the space to think about that question.
Caroline: I’m thinking about it really hard now. And do you know why? Because before we came on, we were talking about the book that you published, and my book that I’ve just published. And how I’ve been saying stupid things. So people have been like, Oh, that’s amazing. You’ve written this book. And then I’m like, Oh, but it’s only 100 pages or it’s only on Amazon KDP. And then straight away, I’m saying these negative things. And why am I doing that? I need to delve into that a lot more deeply because that’s not the way that you should respond to feedback when people tell you congratulations on your book.
Gemma: Yeah. And what is it that actually just stops you saying, Thank you.
Caroline: Exactly.
Gemma: That instant reaction of, Oh, it’s just this. It’s just that. And we were saying earlier, it was like when I published mine, I went through a sea of emotions. There was the focus on the book to get it done. But then the day that it published on Amazon, I remember, I think I was going to a dental appointment, actually, into town. I remember thinking, Right, I better check on KDP and see if it’s live yet. And I had said, Oh, your book is live. And I swear I let out a little squeal in the car as I was sitting in the car. I was like, Oh, my goodness, my book’s live? And I meant that rush of adrenaline. And then within, it must have been less than 30 seconds, it went through my head like, oh, my goodness, I’ve got a book online. The tone changed in my head. Oh, my goodness, I got the fear kicked in.
Caroline: It got serious.
Gemma: Yeah. It’s like, I have a book on Amazon. What if people don’t like it? What if I get really poor reviews? What if I get poor feedback? And then I get trolled. It just like spiralled. And then it was Gemma, just calm down. It was incredible how there was that roller coaster of, as I say, adrenaline, fear.
Caroline: Yeah, you were excited.
Gemma: Then it was just this completely irrational thought. But the thing is, the acceptance of the feedback that I will happily take is when people say to me that they read some of the insights in there, that it resonates so much with them, the way that it’s helped them realise certain things about themselves or accepting certain elements, such as comparing yourself to others. Now, whether that is professional achievements, physically, the size of their house, the type of car that they’ve got.
Caroline: Yeah, the lifestyle.
Gemma: Yeah, absolutely. I think social media has a lot to answer for with that. I mean, it would be such a great… It is such a great opportunity for people to share and gain positivity from it, but it has also had such a negative impact because we see these things, and I refer to it as fake book, because there’s so many people that I have seen that look like they’re in a perfect relationship. It’s all smiles and great photos of their wonderful life, and they’re doing X, Y, and Z. Then you meet them six months later or something, Oh, everything looks… They’re in a terrible relationship. What they’re trying to do is prove to others that everything is fine, to try and prove to themselves that, well, if it looks fine, then I can just carry on as is. And unfortunately, that does look… And I’m not obviously, that’s not everybody. There are genuinely happy people out there. So don’t go questioning every smiley picture that you see. That’s not what I’m saying.
Caroline: No but there often is other things going on in the background.
Gemma: Yeah. It’s used as a mask for so many people. And it really truly saddens me that people feel that they have to do that and have something to get that validation when they can’t validate it themselves. And being able to step back and go, right, what is it that doesn’t allow me to feel content within my life or confident within my life? What would allow me to walk out with my head held high, proud of the mother that you are or the partner that you are or the brother, the father, the great elements of the person that you are without questioning it. It definitely is an age thing. You do accept things as you get a bit older, but there’s a lot that can come from just a powerful conversation with someone where that realisation kicks in. If you recognise that you want to make a change. It doesn’t have to be overnight.
Caroline: No. And in fact, if you try and do it overnight, you’re likely not to achieve what you’re looking for.
Gemma: Yeah. It can be anything. It can be, as I say, not being happy in your job, but it could be that you want to be fitter or you just want to decorate your living room. But then each time you look and go, oh, I really must do this. I really must do that. What is it in that moment that’s stopping you doing it? Is there something that you could go, Right, I need to decorate that. Physically, it’s 10:00 at night. You’re not going to get up and start painting your living room at 10:00 at night. But is there something that you could do to get you to the next step What is the step of that? Is it that you go online and order some paint? Is it that you order the brushes, or the next day you go, right I’m going to get up in the morning and I’m going to go to Homebase or B&Q and get that first step? Because ultimately, when you set yourself a goal, whatever it is, if it’s something that can be achieved in a week, a month, a year, five years, that is your ultimate goal. But if you look at it as a bridge with lots of steps, identify what those steps need to be in the timeline for that, which is achievable and sustainable regardless of what that goal is. So what is the step, the first step that would get you to a point that regardless of how small that step is, how big that step is, it gets you closer to your goal. And as long as you keep moving a little bit forward, it’s progress.
Caroline: Absolutely.
Gemma: Accept it as progress because you’re not where you were at the start of that bridge. You’re starting to travel over it, and you’re getting closer to where you’re trying to get to. So always recognise your achievements and getting to the point that you’re going to. And that looks like, as I say, it depends on what it is that you’re trying to achieve, but it looks very different for different people, you know depending on what other factors that are going on in your life. Sometimes things happen. Say, Shit happens. Things will happen in your life that you need to pause and go, You know what? I can’t actually do that right now.
Caroline: Yeah, you need to be kind to yourself.
Gemma: A hundred percent. And acceptance in that moment of, Right, okay, I can’t do this right now. Maybe you’re trying to achieve doing a 5K, and you’ve been getting on great, and then you catch a virus, and it floors you for a week, two weeks. It’s frustrating. It’s like, Oh, I’ve come so far. Now, something has physically stopped you. It’s not that you’re just being lazy and you’re like, Oh, I’m just going to watch Eastenders instead. It’s your body needs a bit of rest, and you will get back to where you were before. It’s just that you just need to accept what’s going on in that moment.
Caroline: It’s mentally tough though.
Gemma: A hundred percent it is. It really is. But then if you look after yourself, allow yourself to heal, and then break yourself back in better. If you go and push yourself too far at that point when you’re ill, you’re going to end up taking longer to get back to the point that you were at the start.
Caroline: Yeah, potentially.
Gemma: Yeah. It is really hard in that if you’re physically being stopped doing something or you’re progressing in your job, and then all of a sudden something happens within the company, they’re restructuring, your job’s at risk. These parts of life are tough to deal with. Something that I’ve come to realise is that there’s quite a, not a big piece, but I actually covered grief within the book.
Caroline: Yes. I was going to ask about the book because I know, obviously, you’ve been through a lot in your life and people do go through really challenging things. So it might be divorce, it might be bereavement. There’s a lot of things that really do impact how we move forward so that we can continue to function and feel like we are still worthy of growing and putting time into our own personal growth.
Gemma: Yeah. I guess it’s that feeling of being present, isn’t it, within your life and when something difficult happens to us, it’s difficult, it’s really tough to get that sense of physical, emotional, and a sense of presence within a moment and feel like you’re yourself. And one thing that I have come to realise, I guess myself, is that grief, it’s always associated with losing someone. But grief can present in so many different ways. It can be the breakdown of a relationship, the loss of a job, down to even an injury. Because with each of these elements, you face the upset, the frustration, the anger. You get to acceptance, and then you can move on from it. It’s allowing those stages, and whatever the circumstances that you’re in, allowing yourself to get past each of those stages and recognise that you are going through grief. If you lose your job, you’re going to be in shock. You’re going to be upset, angry. And then you get to a point where, depending on your circumstances, where you’re able to go, you know what? I need to start looking for another job. It’s happened. I’m going to get past it. And it’s the same with relationships. Maybe your relationship has ended and it’s hit you like a tonne of bricks. It’s not a nice thing to go through. If you’re the one that’s ended it and it’s been on the cards for a long time, maybe you’re emotionally ready for that. But there’s still stages to go through before you feel ready to then move on and whatever that looks like for the individual. But there are so many different things that can affect us in life that actually does present grief.
Caroline: I think sometimes as well because you feel like you’ve lost yourself or a part of yourself, and then you can’t really see how the new you be able to emerge from that, if that makes sense. I was going to ask about the book. It sounds like there are lots of different aspects to it. What would you recommend for people? Would they read it cover to cover and work through the exercises or is it something that people can dip in and out of depending on which aspects they want to work on?
Gemma: Yes. It’s been interesting, actually, because it got released just before Christmas. So I found that in the last few months, there’s been a lot more feedback because people have had the… Well, we’re all busy when it comes to Christmas, January. Eventually, people have maybe got to a point where they’ve gone, I’m going to be able to actually get to read this.
Caroline: I’m like that with books all the time.
Gemma: Honestly, I could start a library. I got so many, it’s ridiculous. I need to take more time to work my way through them. But what I’ve been told, and it’s interesting because I guess I hadn’t actually considered this before, having conversations the last couple of months. A few people have said to me, I’ve read all the way through it, just to see what’s in it, and then gone back to certain parts that are most relevant to them at the moment. Other people have said they’ve had a… So the content pages is laid out quite straightforward, which allows you to then go, right, is it professional growth that I’m seeking at the moment? Is it personal? Is it something that I want insight around getting out of my comfort zone? And again, that looks different for a lot of people. It can be your comfort zone can be that even though you’re in a difficult relationship, it’s easier to stay within a difficult relationship, than face it and then do something about it. So even though you’re not happy, you’re still within that comfort zone. Or something is easier. You’re in a particular schedule within your life, and it’s just easy to keep on doing that. But then before you know it, five years have passed and you’ve not done anything different. So there’s a lot of different elements within it that people have said that they’ve either, as I say, read all the way through it and then gone, Right, I’m going to go back to this part, or they’ve gone straight to the contents page, find what’s most relevant that they want to focus on at the moment and being able to go to that section and get what they need from it. So what I have learned is that there’s the way that I’ve structured it, and this actually wasn’t intentional, but the way that it’s been structured is that if there is something you want to focus on, you can absolutely just go to that part of it. You do not need to read through the whole book in order to find what that is. I purposely, within the first chapter, have said, I don’t want you to have to read all of this book to be able to apply some of the techniques and the tools that I put in there or gain any insight from it before you can actually get any good from it or take what you need from it. So from the first chapter, there’s actually… so it’s interactive. So there are exercises within it that ask powerful coaching questions to get people to be able to have self-reflection and be able to, I suppose, get more insight about themselves more than anything. I say, determine your core values, for one. If you’re unsure what that looks like. There’s the ability there to ask questions and then have a think about it yourself, write down the answers. The intention there being that something will then trigger you to enable growth, whether that is personally or professionally. There’s also assistance in there for building resilience, looking after your mental health, emotional health, covering things from… There’s techniques in there from, say, deep breathing. You know, if you suffer with anxiety, and in a moment, you need something that can help just get yourself to a calmer state. There’s a couple of different techniques in there that would allow individuals to grow, not only if there’s something that you’re facing at the moment, but also to identify, that you know what? I’m maybe a bit bored. Maybe I don’t know what I want to do that would make me feel a bit more fulfilled within my life. So there’s what, I suppose the easiest way to describe it is there’s a gap analysis tool in there called the Lilibet Matrix, where There’s categories, so you’ve got a work career, but then I’ve broken them down into subcategories, and you actually rate it on a scale of one to 10 as to how happy or fulfilled you are within those different areas of your life. And then you can mark it. So you can actually draw it, or you can write it in the book if you want, because it’s laid out in such a way. But you can rate where you are and where you want to be, and then see what that gap is within each of the different areas of your life and then go, You know what? This is what I want to focus on, or, That’s what I want to focus on. That’s where the biggest gap is that I feel is in my life. So that’s what I’m going to go for first. Now, what I will see as well is that not everything that has a gap you need to take action on right now. So say it was health and fitness. You’ve recognised that you want to be stronger or you want to be faster. Now, where you’re at at the moment, you may rate yourself as 4 out of 10, and ultimately you want to be seven, eight. But you may already be working on that at the point of doing the gap analysis. So it may be that you’ve recognised that, yeah, you’re not as fast as you want to be just yet, but you’re working on it. It’s a work in progress. So there is a gap there, but you don’t need to do anything in this moment with it.
Caroline: Yeah, there’s no additional changes.
Gemma: Yeah. So when you do that reflection exercise, you can actually go, all right, okay, this is the bits that have got a bit more of a gap. I’m going to look at that. But then what does that look like? So determining what your goal is, there’s guidance in there on how to determine what your goal is. I’ve put, I guess in layman’s terms, if you like, what a vision is and what a goal is. And we use the GROW model, which stands for Goal, setting your goal, but then determine what your reality is. Where are you right now? What are your obstacles? What’s stopping you? So your reality and your obstacles and then going, Right, okay, this is identifying all of that. And then W is your way forward. So what is it that I need to do to get past these obstacles from where I am now to where I want to be?
Caroline: Oh, that’s like the WOOP model. Have you heard of the WOOP model?
Gemma: No, I haven’t actually, no.
Caroline: So that’s wish, outcome, obstacles, plan.
Gemma: Okay
Caroline: So it’s kind of a similar thing.
Gemma: Yeah, absolutely.
Caroline: I like a WOOP goal.
Gemma: Yeah. I haven’t heard of that. That’s interesting. But yeah, pretty much the same.
Caroline: Wish, outcome, obstacle, plan. Because when you said obstacle, because I know it’s all very well you know coming up with all these plans, but then the first thing that goes wrong, you just throw everything out the window don’t you.
Gemma: Absolutely. There is an element of motivation, drive, but you do need to know what your reality is. It depends if you’re… So I have a friend that is 10 years younger than me, and she’s at a stage of her life where she’s got two young kids, incredibly intelligent, amazing, the kindest person that I’ve ever met in my life. And the amount of times that she’s gone, Oh, but you’re so, you’ve achieved so much, and you’ve done this, and you do that. And I look at what and I’m like, Stop. Ten years ago, I can’t even think how old I was. I put myself into that place. So what was I? So 34. So yeah, the kids, I was in an unhappy marriage. My kids were young. I was going through a lot of personal challenges. My confidence was low. Professionally, I suppose… Hold on. So I had just not long done my post-grads. So I was, I guess, moving towards being more in a senior role, but I wasn’t at that point. And at that time, if I’d of then compared myself to someone that is in my position now, my kids are 16 and 20. I’m not being called to school for a sick child or feeling pulled between career and home.
Caroline: Running between nursery and school and all the pick-ups.
Gemma: I don’t have that. I have got… I feel like a new lease of life. I have got more freedom and time and head space now in the last year or so than I’ve had in 20 years. I am in a place now in the chapter in my life where I can do things like write a book. Ten years, even five years ago, somebody said that I would be doing that. I’m like, don’t be ridiculous. What am I going to write about? But it was actually my partner that suggested it and actually got me to think, you know what? Okay, I’m going to try it. And then when I started doing it, I was like, oh, I actually really enjoy this. And just being able to put thoughts. And like you see, I’ve got personal challenges that I’ve been through with my childhood, relationships. I went through divorce with children. That was a horrendously difficult time in my life. Really, really difficult years. But you know what? As traumatic as it was, as difficult as it was, being a single mother, I was made redundant just months after moving into my own place with the girls.
Caroline: Gosh, yeah, that’s tough.
Gemma: It was awful. That literal thought of…
Caroline: What else can go wrong?
Gemma: Yeah. There’s been times in my life I go, Was I a cockroach in a previous life? What have I done to deserve all this crap that kept being flung at me? But you know what? It’s made who I am today. And it has allowed me to be able to be in a position where when people need coaching… And sorry, I actually just realised I didn’t answer your question that you asked me about half an hour ago. You said about doing workplace. If I was doing workplace coaching or different people.
Caroline: Oh, yeah.
Gemma: So yes, the workplace coaching. But I’ve had people that have come to me with low self-esteem, with difficulty on, I want to change my job, but I’m actually unsure what I want to do and how to make that decision. I’ve also had low… I was going to say confidence, maybe won’t frame it in that way. A situation where somebody felt like they were constantly snapping at their kids and feeling like a bad parent. But then actually, when we stripped it right back, it came down to the acceptance that she wanted to be at home with her children but felt this It’s been an immense pressure to be working at the same time and what that, I guess, that social expectation was of her. The conversations that I have with individuals massively range. It can be what direction do I want to be in my life. There was one… I’ve had a few with relationship issues, unsure if they want to stay in their marriage, for example. And there’s no right or wrong. It’s enabling that space for someone to truly reflect and giving them powerful questions to think about in that moment that will allow them to find the answers themselves.
Caroline: Yeah, that’s what I was saying before.
Gemma: Coaching isn’t about me, you know… I saw this in a brilliant video of what people maybe have an expectation of what coaching is. There’s a woman running around full speed in a house, and a guy in front of her opening the door just before she’s ready to run through it. He’s actually opening all the doors for her to run through. She’s getting to where she wants to be. She’s doing what she wants to be doing. But he’s actually doing all the work and opening all the doors for her. And then suddenly, he shuts the door, or he doesn’t open it as quick, and she smacks right into it because she wasn’t expecting it because it’s like, Oh, someone’s telling me where to go, and they’re enabling me to do it. But she should have been opening the door herself. It’s like, coaching is so much more powerful when someone is enabled to do that. And not even enabling, because that sounds like I’m giving that person permission.
Caroline: It’s that space isn’t it.
Gemma: It’s actually allowing someone to see that they can grow and they can change. And their life doesn’t have to be how it is if they don’t want to be in that space. And they may be not completely unhappy. As I say, it’s maybe just a feeling of feeling completely static.
Caroline: Yeah, stuck, yeah.
Gemma: It’s like, I’m just in the same spot, and I feel like my day is all mulched to one because nothing’s changing. But what does that need to look like? Maybe, yeah, you need structure. You’ve got young kids or you’re working. You do need that structure. But there’s a point where something small could change that just gives you a bit of respite from that or make you feel like you’re doing something that gives you that adrenaline rush. You know, it could be exercise or it could be that you’re crafty, maybe getting the paints out or something that makes you feel happy. Whatever creates those endorphins for you is your happy space. What is that happy space for you? Go and do it. What’s stopping you? If you’re not happy and you’re not happy, go and change it. Don’t allow yourself to be your barrier. Don’t allow other people to be your barrier, first and foremost. But don’t allow yourself to be that barrier. I think that is where a lot of people struggle.
Caroline: Yeah. Or it’s even that feeling of all the things that have come before, I think, can build up that belief that you can’t change. So, yeah, it’s really tricky, but I love that. So when you think about coaching, for most people, that’s not accessible because obviously it costs a lot of money. So a book like yours, I love that people can use that as a self-coaching tool and you can work through the questions. I guess it’s just a case of them making the space, the time and the space to do that, to dedicate some time to look at what are the areas that I really want to work on and the tools are there to help them.
Gemma: It’s giving yourself, it’s allowing yourself to have time to look at these things. Because I as I say you can pick it up and put down when needed. There are lots of different exercises in there, insights, motivational quotes throughout it, the opportunity to use it at whatever stage you are in your life. You could buy it today and be in a completely different place in six months time. And then still be able to pick it up and go, right, I want to do a bit of a sense check on where I’m at, what are my, how would I do that gap analysis now? Or what has changed in the last six months? What tools could I do to make things a little bit easier on myself or to bring a bit more fulfilment within my life? Or what difficult decisions do I need to make? But how do I get to that point? If you have a difficult decision to make, what does that look like? What does that journey need to look like for you? But I just, I guess I just want everybody to be able to have that sense of contentness and happiness within their life. Everybody deserves that.
Caroline: Absolutely, yeah.
Gemma: It doesn’t really It doesn’t matter what… There’ll be tough things that you’ve gone through. Some people absolutely get thrown more than their fair share. Life is shit sometimes it really is. And it’s not fair. And sometimes it’s just finding what it is that we need to do to survive through certain elements, but then to actually grow from it. There’s so much opportunity there to take even difficult times in our lives and turn it into something useful or make that another strand in your life to go, You know what? I’ve done this. But it means that, A, I’m not going to, either if you’ve got the choice, not let it happen again, or if it happens again, I know what to expect.
Caroline: You’re definitely stronger, yeah, yeah.
Gemma: Absolutely stronger. It’s things It will come at us in life that is inevitable and it’s difficult to get through, but allow your time to get through that. Accept in that moment what you need. Is it that something horrendous has happened and you can’t get out of bed? If you get out of bed one day and go and have a shower, that is progress. Accept the small things.
Caroline: The small things. Be kind to yourself.
Gemma: Yes.
Caroline: My mum used to always say, Every cloud has a silver lining. It is my favourite motivational quote. I remember when we got married, me and my husband, my stepdad, I remember him saying something like, well, if it wasn’t for bad luck, you’d have no luck at all. And actually bad luck isn’t always bad. And you have to see how can you turn that around? So I love the every cloud has a silver lining analogy, and it always grounds me and makes me go, you’ve been through so much crap in your life. You can definitely get through whatever the next thing is.
Gemma: There’s so much learning to be able to take from life, but it’s allowing yourself to get through that moment. And as you say, be kind to yourself. Being able to… but once you get to the point that you’re able to go, right I want to make a change, what does that need to look like? There’s so many opportunities in life that you can be happier and more content or calmer or just enjoy life as it is, because I know it’s such a cliché thing to say, but life is too short.
Caroline: It is.
Gemma: And we don’t know what’s going to happen tomorrow. And If something is truly pulling you down one way or another, change it. And if you need assistance with that, don’t be ashamed to ask for help. If you’re unsure what that needs to look like for you, there is so many different opportunities out there. The thing that I recognised when writing the book was that there were so many people when I started getting to get into conversation around coaching and explaining what it was. They’re like, oh, that sounds great. That would be such a benefit to me, but I just can’t afford one-to-one sessions. There’s an app that I’m developing as well just now to try and enable another mechanism to support people. But it was definitely one of the motivators to say, I want to give people the tools and the insights that they can in order to make that transformational change themselves. And rather than having to commit to… I mean, sessions are absolutely worthwhile, and it helps somebody be held accountable for those changes because we will say, Right, where are we starting at today? What has changed in that time since I last saw you? And seeing those small changes and then being able to go at the end of the session, right, so what are you taking away? What actions are you going to do by the next time you come back? So I am actually holding them accountable.
Caroline: There’s a timeline, yeah, yeah.
Gemma: Yeah. And I am asking them specific questions depending on the conversation. So it’s absolutely worthwhile if you’re able to do it. But for 9.99, somebody can read through that. And I really hope that there would be even a handful of things that someone can take from it and make small changes within their lives that make them feel happier. Because, as I say, everyone deserves that. But I understand that not everybody has that opportunity to get one-to-one coaching.
Caroline: And in fact, this is maybe a good introduction for people to even see the potential that coaching could have for them if they did want to invest. So a little bit ago, you spoke about, you used the term, was it happy space. And the podcast is all about Kind Spaces. So that was something that I wanted to ask you about as well. So when it comes to your own well-being and the things that you do to keep yourself balanced, as it were. What do you love to do to create your Kind Space?
Gemma: So my go-to for years has been exercise. That is my, definitely my pathway to let off steam or to go for a nice long country, run along the railway line, taking the scenery or whatever that looks like. But there has been times where my health hasn’t allowed me to do that. Which I will admit has caused a lot of frustration and upset on the occasion. But my alternative, although I do do it in other times, is actually DIY. So I absolutely love being able to go, right, I want that to look different. What do I need to do to do it? And I will just give it a go. I did panelling through COVID, actually, was probably the most busy time that my house got the transformation that it needed because I had the time to do nothing much else. But I did panelling up my stairs that I never thought I would have been able to do. And granted, it’s probably not the best job. At a glance, it looks great. If you get too close, though, you’ll see that there’s probably lumps of filler that I’ve not sanded properly or it’s a little bit squint, but I took my time over it. I had drawings and everything, and then I I had to get… I actually don’t even know what it’s called. Is it a mortar board?
Caroline: Mitre saw.
Gemma: Mitre board. Yeah, mortar boards when you graduate, isn’t it? So having to use one of those, I probably went through a lot more wood than I should have done. But it was so enjoyable.
Caroline: The stairs? The angle? Why did you choose the stairs?
Gemma: Yeah, I have no idea. I know I should have chosen something so much more simple. But being able to do it, it took me, it doesn’t get me wrong, I was working at the same time as well. So it did take me probably a good while. It wasn’t a couple of hours effort, but I just had to do it bit by bit. But then seeing it now completed is great. And I’ve done panelling in the living room actually recently, which was a heck of a lot easier.
Caroline: I can imagine.
Gemma: Yeah, so much easier.
Caroline: What’s next on your DIY list?
Gemma: As the weather, as we’re saying, it’s so lovely today. It’s actually going to be the garden, I think. I’ve just put up a summer house, which I’m going to be using as a coaching space because I had a room in my house, but I just think it’d be lovely to sit out in the garden. I’ve got a nice couch in there and heaps of books, so it’s a nice, quiet space. But what you currently look at isn’t the best. So I’m considering building some planters or something like that so that I can put some nice pretty flowers out there.
Caroline: That’d be good.
Gemma: So that’s next on the list. Yeah.
Caroline: Hopefully we get some more good weather.
Gemma: Absolutely. So that and painting my fence, I think. I’ve got two cats that seem to love using it as their personal scratching post. So a bit of fixing. They’ll probably still do it after I’ve painted it again, but it’ll temporarily be prettier.
Caroline: Yeah. Awesome. No, that’s so great. Thank you so much, Gemma. We could obviously talk for hours and hours and hours. Huge congratulations on your book and thank you so much for bringing me a copy. I’m going to definitely be checking out all the exercises.
Gemma: Thank you, you’re welcome.
Caroline: I’ll leave you a review on KDP.
Gemma: Thank you so much. Yeah, for anyone that does want to try, it’s on Amazon, so you just need to search Dare to Grow, and it should pop up quite close to top. But it is under Gemma Bendel. For those that know…
Caroline: That’s your author name because that’s your maiden name.
Gemma: Yeah, that’s my author name. For those that know me professionally, I am known as Gemma Burns. That is my legal name, but I chose to put my I maiden name on there just as my author name.
Caroline: Nice. If people are wanting to get in touch with you, would that be through your Lilibet Coaching site?
Gemma: Yeah. So my… SojJust It’s a little sneak piece of information. Lilibet is actually my middle name that I, for years, didn’t know how to spell properly, believe it or not. Even in adulthood, I had to check my mum. I’m like, is that an ‘e’ in the middle or is it an ‘i’? Then I started watching The Crown. And then Princess Lilibet was born. So now a lot more people know the name Lilibet, but it is actually
Caroline: It’s really unusual.
Gemma: It actually is. And when people used to ask me, I’m like, it’s the queen’s nickname. No idea why that’s my middle name, but you know, there you go. So the website. So my company is Lilibet Coaching Limited, and the website is Lilibet Coaching. So it’s L-I-L-I-B-E-T, coaching dot com. And there is contact forms through there. Or I’m on LinkedIn under Gemma Burns, and you’ll find me on there, too.
Caroline: Yeah. So we’ll pop the links in the show notes as well so people can get in touch, yeah.
Gemma: Perfect. Thank you. Thank you so much.
Caroline: Thank you.
Gemma: Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.
Caroline: Finding purpose and contentment in life is not an easy journey, especially as life has a way of throwing you curve balls when you least expect it. Coaching can be a great way to help you navigate these challenges or help you get unstuck or find purpose and meaning in your life. Above all, I hope listening to our conversation today shows you the importance of being kind to yourself through difficult transitions and that it’s okay to just take small, actionable steps towards self-improvement.
Now you might have heard us mention my book and be thinking what book? To support people on the smart home side of our business I’ve created a guide book for the Amazon Alexa smart speakers called “What can I say to Alexa?” Essentially, it’s a reference guide to help people learn about the different Alexa features and commands. If you want to check it out it’s on Amazon, you can type in the book title “What can I say to Alexa?” or just type in something like “Alexa commands” and you should find it in the search results. I’ll also pop a link in the show notes here as well.
