Welcome to another episode of the ’Create Your Kindspace’ podcast, with me your host Caroline Laurenson. Create Your Kindspace is all about wellbeing and the different ways in which we care for ourselves and those around us.
I have had some truly wonderful guests this year and I’m really excited for you to meet my last guest of 2024. She’s a super straight-talking entrepreneur, passionate about her mission to support people with their digestive health and break the taboo of talking about poo. So let’s dive into my conversation with Gemma Stuart, founder of Gut Wealth
Timestamps:
00:02:13 Gemma’s journey from IBS sufferer to founder of Gut Wealth
00:05:29 The social and emotional challenges of digestive health
00:08:24 Gemma’s five core tips for managing gut health
00:20:23 Entrepreneurship: The realities behind the scenes
00:31:36 The importance of listening and the power of kindness
00:37:31 Creating Your Kind Space: Gemma’s wellbeing practices
00:41:45 Reflections on our word of the year
00:45:54 Where to connect with Gemma and find out more about Gut Wealth
Links:
Website: https://www.gutwealth.co.uk/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/gutwealth.co/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gutwealth.co/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gemmastuart/
Transcript:
Caroline: Welcome, Gemma. I am excited to have you with me for our last show of 2024 and we’re going to be talking about all things poo, which might not sound very festive, but bear with me. So my thought process was that when we come to the holiday period, it can be a bit stressful. We’re out of our normal routine and actually for many people, you know, especially if they have conditions like IBS, it can have a massive impact on how much you’re able to enjoy the holidays and, you know, travelling or trying new things and yeah, it just adds stress on top of that. So I thought, no better person than Gemma Stuart from Gut Wealth, would be the perfect guest to help us. So welcome to the show.
Gemma: Thank you for having me. I appreciate it so much. I’m always happy to come and talk about all things gut health. You know, I’m a bit of a champion over here, so, yeah, thanks for having me.
Caroline: Wonderful. So, to kick us off, it would be really amazing if you could give a bit of an intro into your background and how you came to found your business.
Gemma: Yeah. So like a lot of founders, I have a very squiggly career path. So if you were to look at like my CV in order, it probably doesn’t make much sense to the outside observer. But what I’m doing now is I’m helping people with their digestive wellbeing and both through education and through selling my product, which is Gut Wealth and it’s a liquid supplement. So the reason why I’ve gone into this is I actually have had IBS for over 10 years. I’d been suffering in silence and sometimes very loudly for years and years and just felt like I couldn’t find solutions. I used to buy products from different countries, used to try every, I don’t want to say diet because it wasn’t about losing weight, but I would try every sort of dietary plan to try and control my digestive health and regularly would have cameras in places that you don’t want to think about and also tests, all the tests, tests under the sun to try and figure out what was going on. And as with most people who have IBS, you have periods where things seem to be going okay and then, not that you forget about it, but you kind of move on, you know, and carry on and focusing on all the good and fun things in life, and then you have periods where your digestive health just seems to be playing havoc with your emotions, but also like your plans and it plays havoc with anything that you’re trying to do, whether that’s like, work, social, whatever.
And so for me, I really, during the pandemic, the start of the pandemic, decided I wanted to do something about it. So I did lots of things around improving my digestive health and did some things around improving and changing, like how I was exercising, for example, but also started to study IBS management because I just was sick, fed up of it, to be quite completely honest, and figured that there must be something that I can do to change and be more consistent with, to improve my digestive wellness. And so that’s a short summary. And so then, like, during the, towards the end of the pandemic, realised, like, through learning about the power of biotics, which are essentially beneficial bacterias, that I could help others improve their digestive wellness and essentially wrote myself a business plan and then tried to talk myself out of it several times about not run and not starting this business, like multiple times. But there was something like that was guiding me and I really don’t want to use the pun, but, like, I just trusted my gut, was following my gut, that this is like, what I wanted to do. So that’s how I’ve ended up here talking to you today.
Caroline: Oh, amazing. So it really was a bit of a calling then, actually, you started off on this journey of thinking about how can I make my life better and then realised that you could actually help many, many more people who are suffering in silence, feeling embarrassed and ashamed, potentially.
Gemma: Yeah, yeah.
Caroline: I had read some statistics, actually about how prevalent it is, like Irritable Bowel Syndrome and these sorts of digestive health conditions. And it was saying basically that it’s more common than what the statistics say because most people, they aren’t coming forward and asking for help and speaking to their doctors and things. So I think it’s just amazing what you’re doing. Yeah,
Gemma: Thank you, thank you. I do get told that quite a lot, but it’s just like, it’s so in me now that I just have to do this. It’s just everything about what I’m trying to do because I totally remember the embarrassment, the discomfort, the like, I’m quite an open person, but I wasn’t necessarily open about this, I would be like, you know, I worked in corporate environments and so on, and I just would be quite embarrassed, like, to ever share anything to do with, like, my own digestive health. And I remember, like, actually before the pandemic, I was working on this big project and it was sort of coming to an end and we had a big event in Germany and I was hosting, like, a section, like, an element of it. And towards the end of the day, one of my colleagues had said to me, oh, you’ve been keeping secret secrets. And I was like, all right, okay. What do you mean? He’s like, oh, you’ve been keeping secrets from us. And I thought, oh, yeah. Like, I had quite a few surprises throughout the day during the event. And I thought, oh, like, it’s great he’s recognised that. Then he said, I didn’t know you were pregnant. And I was like, oh, I’m really sorry to tell you I’m not pregnant. I actually have IBS. And it’s just flaring up because I’m really, really stressed. And, like, he was like, oh, my God. You could almost see him wanting to, like, gobble his words. And there was another colleague who was just standing next to us at the social event and he was like, oh, my God. Like, because the other colleague was embarrassed for, like, the other male colleague, it was just really awkward for… It actually wasn’t that awkward for me because I’ve been told it so many times before, in a different aspect and stuff. And it’s… I don’t feel sorry that he said that. Like, I feel sorry that, like, I guess that I, like, I felt comfortable to say that to him, but I also then was like, oh, I hope everybody else wasn’t thinking that. But at the same time, that was the least of my troubles, because my troubles was that I had such severe bloating that people thought I was pregnant. That was, and, like, discomfort that isn’t… like, there’s an element of embarrassment, but the pain and discomfort is way worse than, like, the element of embarrassment. So I suppose to bring that all back to the point, like, while my products not just for women who people think look pregnant, it’s for people who have, like, digestive discomfort, bloating and, you know, irregular and bio movements. So, like, the whole thing is if, like, I can help more people not have that and not have that in their mind. Then, like, I’ve. I’m doing a good job. So, yeah, that’s broadly. Yeah, that’s what it’s all about. Yeah.
Caroline: Wow.What a story. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. Can you imagine? Oh, no.
Gemma: Yeah, and, like. And I sort of feel sorry for him as well, because he’s probably really, like, worried that he once said that, like, he probably tells. I’m not sure if he tells that story, but I’m sure, like, if he ever sees something where someone accidentally does something similar, it’ll bring back a horror for him, but, like, I don’t know how to describe it, but, like, it’s not, like, his fault. Like, it’s not his fault for thinking that, and it’s not his fault for, like, you know, mistakenly saying something. But, yeah, it is one of these moments where, like, I think we can all relate of, like, how uncomfortable that would be for the trio of us chatting.
Caroline: Oh, definitely. Definitely. What a story. Yeah. I think it’s such a complex condition. I don’t know if that’s the right word, you know, in terms of how it impacts your life and, you know, the different factors that kind of feed into that. So for a lot of people, you know, they get flared up because it’s triggered by things that are happening in their life. You know, if they’ve got a stressful job or maybe something’s happening at home in terms of their family life or there’s lots of different reasons. Yeah, why people go through these cycles of, you know, they think they’re getting better and then actually it’s still there and it’s flaring up again. So one of the things that I thought would be really useful for people today would be to kind of talk through your sort of process when it comes to managing your condition and the kind of advice that you might be able to give to someone who’s maybe kind of feeling like they’re stuck in this cycle.
Gemma: Yeah. Yeah. So, like, the advice that I would probably give isn’t just for people with IBS, it’s for anybody, really, because actually, like, we all have moments where, like, our digestive health is probably dodgy in some description or is giving you signals and symptoms that something’s not quite right. So I really focus on five core basic things. And when I say they’re basic, they’re very, very basic, but they’re the first things to go when any of us, you know, have, like, other things on our mind. So, like, the first one is that I really always suggest to people, like, if they’re looking for improvements to their digestive health, is rest. So, like, your digestive system needs a lot of downtime, so to speak, to be able to do what it needs to do. So, like, the vast majority of the calories that we consume, like, our body actually uses the calories to process the food and then move the nutrients around our body. So in order to do that successfully, we need a lot of rest. And sleep itself should not be a luxury. So if you’re not getting enough sleep, your gut will be showing you symptoms. So that’s like the first One.
The second one is, like, movement. So I say, like, even if you’re not like, a very, like someone who’s really into exercise, the absolute minimum that you should be doing is after your main meal is to… or main meals of the day, is to get like, 10 minutes of walking, 15 minutes. Obviously, if you can do 30, that’s better. Obviously, if you can do an hour, that’s better. But as a minimum, to get the digestive system going by introducing, like, more blood flow around the body, like, speed up the blood flow around the body and to help your gut function better. This really will absolutely help your digestion. So these both sound, like, super simple, don’t they? Like rest and movement. Oh, like, of course, like, everybody does that every day, but we all know that, like, you know, two out of two, like, we’re not always doing it consistently every single day.
Caroline: Yeah.
Gemma: The third one is really around stress. So this is like, the biggest trigger for me, and it’s also probably one of the biggest triggers for most people. So stress has lots of impacts on your body, as we all know, but also, like, on the gut. So what it does for me is, like, when I’m stressed, I’m, like, holding everything like this. Like, I’m probably walking around like. And we all know what that means when I do that symbol, which is like, this tightness that you create around the body. That’s not great for your digestive health. But not only does stress do physical things to my body, it also means that I stop doing the basics and then I reach for the food stuff that I know is convenient but isn’t good for my gut health. And when I say this, I know this is, like, common themes that come out for, like, most people when I’m talking to them. So both customers and people, when we’re doing educational talks about your digestive wellbeing. Other things that happen when I’m stressed is I eat really quickly, so you can tell that I talk really quickly. I’m also, like, prone to eating quickly. Like, I… it’s just a habit that, like, my natural is to just do everything quickly. So when you’re eating quickly, you’re then not chewing slowly. You’re not getting enough saliva. That helps, like, with the processing of your food as you consume it. And so that’s why stress is probably my biggest trigger, because I then start to do other actions that don’t… aren’t conducive to, like, good gut health.
The fourth one is hydration. So we all know that we’re supposed to drink two litres of water every day. But, like, you know, some people think that Coca Cola is a good substitute. It’s not. It’s really about taking two litres of water, but also to be sipping that throughout the day rather than, like, you know, drinking a litre in the morning and a litre at night. That isn’t the best way to get the best function out of your.
Caroline: Spacing it out, yeah.
Gemma: Absolutely. The sort of funny or interesting thing about hydration is, like, if you have constipation or diarrhoea, you still need lots of water, for like the gut to function at its best. So the large intestine essentially, like, draws liquid out of your stool as it’s processing. And so, like, you just need to have more water if you’re constipated. Like, it’s highly likely if someone’s constipated that they are dehydrated as a first port of call. And then the same with diarrhoea, or if you have loose stools, is the stool isn’t in your body long enough, so it’s not… you’re not getting all the nutrients from it. But also that you just need to replenish the water that you’ve lost by.
Caroline: Yeah, you’re losing that. Yeah. Because it’s not come out through the body, yeah, yeah.
Gemma: Yeah. So those are like the four, like, real simple stuff, but what everybody tends to go to. And when I say simple, they should be simple if you had nothing else to do in life. Right, like, so I don’t have kids, but like, people who’ve got kids and you’ve got a business, you’ve got family, you’ve got to take out the dogs. You’ve got to make the dinners. You’ve also got to pick up your parents and you’ve got to be part of the PTA or whatever hundred million other things you’ve got to do. These four basics I’ve said so far are difficult when all those other things also need to be done and those other things are all looking after somebody else, rather than being kind and looking after yourself. Right. So then the thing that most people tend to rely on as their thing or reason about IBS is to do with food. And actually, to me as much as, like, we all probably have foods that don’t agree with us, they’re trigger foods. Foods in some ways, like the… it’s not the least important, but if you’re… even if you’re eating the right perfect food, but you’re not doing the other four, then you’re not necessarily doing the best for yourself.
Caroline: So fighting a losing battle then. Yeah, yeah.
Gemma: Yeah. So then in terms of food, it’s not just like what you eat, it’s also how you eat. So going back to the point I said before about me slowing down to chew my food, that was like, when someone said that to me, it was like this ridiculously simple but very impressive to me, light bulb moment of like, ah, of course it’s going to be difficult for my digestive system to break down big chunks of food because I’m putting it in my mouth, doing one chew and then swallowing. So like there’s simple things like that that like, I guess I probably needed a bit of re-education as an adult, like in my 30s around that. So I don’t remember doing very basic biology when I was at school about, you know, the digestive system because that probably happened when you were what, five or six years old. And it just wasn’t embedded in like how I was living, to be honest. Everything was like, about enjoying my food and like, you know, being social and like mealtimes are really sociable time for me. And so like the last thing I’m thinking is like, okay, I must sit and chew this food 32 times, which is supposedly the correct amount.
Caroline: The magic number, yeah.
Gemma: Which I think is, I think that’s a bit intense. But yeah, like, but like then also things like choosing foods that are possibly less solid, that are easier to digest if you do have digestive issues. So it’s not just about like the what you’re eating, but also how you’re eating. And then what I’ve also really learned is like I was eating like it’s… I wouldn’t even necessarily call it all like processed or ultra processed food, but I definitely was eating a lot of food but not thinking about what I was eating in the day or in the week. So like often we’d have like treats or whatever treats means, but like I was eating them quickly and also like I’d eat a lot of snacks, but I was eating on the fly a lot because I was too busy, I use this term, I was just too busy. And so I was just making a lot of like poor gut choices because everything was like about, as I’ve said before, everything’s about speed for me. I just like to get things done and keep things moving and that necessarily, ha-ha, keep things moving. I’m talking about gut health, but like. I wasn’t making like good gut choices. So I’m not going to sit here as if I’m a dietitian. Or nutritionist and pull out 100 different things about what you should and shouldn’t be eating. But we all know the basics of, like, colour, variety, fruit, vegetables, pulses, legumes, all that jazz. And that’s all really easy to do if you’re, like, in that mindset of, like, wanting to eat really, really healthy. But for me, more now it’s just about variety and colour, so I have to… and doing, like, simple tips and tricks, like, there’s salads in the world that I really don’t love and there’s salads in the world that I like. So I make the ones I like, simple win, you know what I mean? Like, why punish yourself? But, like, making sure that I’ve just got like a variety of veg and fruit in all of my meals, or as many of them as I can, but then also just trying to be a lot more prepared. Like, before the pandemic, I used to travel a lot for work, so I’d probably be away Tuesday to Thursday or Tuesday to Friday most weeks with work. And so what that would mean is the company would be paying for my dinner of the evening, so I’d be enjoying quite a few, like, evening meals that wouldn’t… they’re not necessarily good to have that many rich meals on the regular. So what I just now do is I just try and measure out roughly what I’m going to be having over the week and just making better gut choices and knowing fine that I’m not aiming for perfection, whatever that would be, but I am aiming to make, like multiple good choices throughout the week. Yeah, so those would be like my five summary basics, but I would say that they’re not always easy to do. So just be mindful that, like. Yeah, just be mindful that being kind to yourself is not giving yourself a hard time when you can’t get the five basics right every week, week in, week out.
Caroline: Yeah, I liked your advice as well about thinking about, is there ways that you can kind of plan in advance for those times when you know that it’ll be harder to make the, the good choices? And when you were talking about your biology knowledge, it was making me remember me and the kids went to this amazing show and I can’t remember if it was TechFest that put it on or whether it might have been the Aberdeen Science Centre. And it was all about the digestive system. And they totally got like a bit of Weetabix and crushed it up a bit and put some milk in it and they had a funnel and this big, like, clear tube. And then like the kids, you had to put the stuff in the tube and then the kids were like this, being the intestines, like squeezing their hands….
Gemma: Yeah.
Caroline: To get the food to move along. And just that whole process was. It was quite labour intensive. So I think it really got that message home about how important it is to chew your food and actually how energy intensive the gut is, you know, like what you were saying, like, a lot of the calories that we consume is actually used to help us consume the nutrients.
Gemma: Exactly. And move the nutrients around the body. Exactly.
Caroline: Yeah.
Gemma: And it’s like, so, see now, like, I’ve summarised that all up into like a five minutes of chat or whatever that’ll make sense. But it was like when I was doing this course that it was like, it was like, it was completely new information to me. I was like, what on earth. Like, I’ve been making quite a lot of choices, poor choices. There’s also like a thing about, like, antibiotics. Like, I’d had lots of antibiotics over various periods of time and I think I didn’t really understand what that was doing to my gut. So I’d had a problem with one of my teeth and I just, I just kept getting antibiotics because it kept getting inflamed. It was just one of these periods of time where, like, I look back and I go, ah like, I was basically damaging my gut for like a long, long period of time for all the right reasons to try and improve, like, what was going on with my tooth. But yeah, there were some challenges.
Caroline: That’s all, like, really helpful advice and I know it’s going to help people as well. And this kind of run up to the festive season. Maybe we could share how we actually met, because I think this is quite interesting in that you’re originally from the North East and I am based in the North East, but we actually met at a awards ceremony last year. So was it, I think it was the Women’s Enterprise Scotland Awards. And we ended up sitting next to each other, which is just like the funniest coincidence ever. And obviously we got on to talking about, like, what we both do in our businesses and things. And yeah, I just felt like, you know, that connection that, like, oh, this is someone who gets what it’s like to decide to go on this crazy path. And yeah, it was just. I find these sorts of events sometimes a bit overwhelming, to be honest. You know, you go to these events and you’re just like, oh, my gosh, I’m not quite sure I could like, string together, you know, a sentence and like, be like a nor a normal person.
Gemma: Normal person. Yeah.
Caroline: So it was very refreshing to meet someone like you and yeah, feel that connection.
Gemma: Thanks.Yeah, so we met at the Women Enterprise Scotland Awards and we were both up for awards. I had arrived late. I just hadn’t given myself enough time. I wasn’t trying to be fashionably late or anything like that. So completely missed the whole of the networking at the start. Literally missed all of it. So then I arrived and everybody was at the seats and you just had a very smiley, happy face and, like, that you were on the table I was supposed to be on and there was a spare seat and I was like, oh, so nice to sit next to somebody who’s just smiling, welcoming and like, asking questions. Because I just felt like I’d walked into a room and everybody knew each other, which obviously isn’t the case. But, you know, in that moment where you walk into, like a room of strangers and you just need to see like one smiley face to, like, help you embed. And so that was that. Thankfully, that was you. And yeah, it was a really supportive, like, the table was all really supportive, but, like, the whole room was great that evening.
Gemma: So will we explain that we’ve just swapped your headphones or will not matching it?
Caroline: Oh, I love it when the tech all, like, working nicely. Well, we can do. Because there’s, you know, there’s no issue with that. Where did we get to.
Gemma: So I was just saying that, like, essentially, like, it’s just really good when you’re in those environments that, like, other people smile and just like, let you know and. And then do that thing. Like you then introduce me to a few other people on the table and like, it’s just a really kind thing to do in that moment. And I like, really do always try to do that. Like, try and connect other people. So even if I met like person A five minutes before and had a little bit of a chat with them, then when I see person B, I’ll try and introduce them to each other because it just gives, like, people that… like takes a tiny bit of that awkward moment away where you have to do it. And also it helps embed in my mind, like, what everybody’s names are. So, you know, and then, like, you did that. And I just. I always think it’s good when people do that. I think it’s really kind. So, yeah, thanks.
Caroline: Yeah, it was a really lovely event, wasn’t it? I feel like sometimes when we go to these sorts of things, it can be quite stressful and you can come away feeling like, yeah, I’m trying to think. I’m trying to think how to describe it. But it can become something that you go to because you feel like you have to and not because you genuinely are able to enjoy it. So, yeah, when I meet someone who I connect with and I’m like, actually that made that evening so, so much less painful. You know, it’s really nice. And you know, it’s not to say anything bad about, you know, the kind of entrepreneurial ecosystem and like, how it all works, but especially if, like, I’m really introverted and I find it really difficult to speak to people and I think sometimes these things, they can be really overwhelming. And, it’s that energy thing, isn’t it? So it’s like I sometimes come away feeling like, oh my goodness, like I need to lie down in a darkened room for like a week now.
Gemma: And I think, and I’m probably the opposite, like I’m extroverted, but I also need, like quite a bit of downtime. And sometimes because I am extroverted, I haven’t given myself the space of like the downtime before. Like, even, you know, I do get energy from being around other people, but I also then sometimes treble stack things. So I might be doing three networking or engaging type things in a day and I’m like, by the end of the day I’m like, whoa, that was too much. Whereas if I could be a bit more like empathetic to myself at times and just be like, actually, you don’t need to squeeze as much stuff in in one day. But yeah, and that’s literally what happened that day. I just squeezed too many things and by the time I got to that particular event, I was just, wow, this is overwhelming. I’m walking into a big room and it sort of doesn’t matter whether you’re introvert or extrovert, it’ it’s just like, it can be daunting. So, yeah, I’m really kind of you to introduce me to people, like, really well received by me.
Caroline: Aww. and do you know it’s been so lovely to kind of see like how your journey’s progressed, you know, since we met like a year ago. And like all the amazing things that you’ve been doing and working on and you’ve been on STV as well, haven’t you? And yeah, won some awards and yeah, it just seems like your brand is growing in terms of the awareness around the brand and the amazing feedback that you’ve been getting from your customers. So it’s just lovely to see the amazing things that you’ve been doing and working on and you’ve been on STV as well, haven’t you? And yeah, won some awards and yeah, it just seems like your brand is growing in terms of the awareness around the brand and the amazing feedback that you’ve been getting from your customers. So it’s just lovely to see.
Gemma: Thank you. I think it’s all that stuff’s the stuff that people shout about. So I’ve been trying really hard to be very vocal about the stuff that’s really hard behind the scenes as well. So yourself from being a founder of a small business is, you’re the bookkeeper, you’re maybe not the accountant, but you’re the bookkeeper, you’re head of IT, you’re head of marketing, you’re head of distribution, you’re head of everything. So you’re the Chief Everything Officer. And on most days that’s fine. And then there’s just some days it’s just really, really hard to see the wood for the trees. And the vast majority of the time it’s good. And then there’s some days that are the outliers that are brilliant, and then there’s other outliers that are just really, really hard.
And I just try to be as honest about that experience as I can because I think there’s a lot of people online who are like, oh, I’m 10xing my ROAS. When I read that for the first time, I don’t even know what a ROAS is. It’s your return on your return on ad spend. So how much return you get depends on how much money you spent. Or like, I’m 10xing my revenue and I’m this, that and other. And there’s quite a lot of language around business I just find to be partly, like, it’s, it’s over complicated, but also there’s like, sort of like a… well, I was going to use a rude word there. I can’t think how to word it in another way. There’s a… an exercise where, like, my thing’s bigger than your thing. And it’s just a bit tiring to hear that.
Like, I actually really like the stories where people say, oh, I’ve just achieved this thing, so want to tell you how I had to wade through treacle to get there. And here’s how I’ve done it. That, to me, is more interesting. And so that’s what I like, try to talk about, because I’ve made loads of mistakes. And I mean, I don’t, you know, in the moment of that mistake being made, I don’t necessarily, like, publicly say on LinkedIn, oh, yeah, I’ve just made this big mistake because I still have to, like, manage it in my own mind. But I do do a thing where I’ll be like, oh, last month wasn’t as great as I thought it was going to be because of XYZ reason or like, here’s what it might have seemed like to others, but actually I’ve tried this 15 times before and it didn’t work and on the 16th time it did. Hopefully you’re not trying something 15 times and doing it on 16. But the point being is like, I just think like a little bit of like vulnerability and honesty about growing a small business.
But also I just think it’s like, I know the topic of this is about kindness, but it is also being kind because like, I know behind closed doors, especially because I’m in like, you know, I’m in some co-working spaces and I work in spaces where other founders are and privately we’re saying to each other this thing’s really tough. Like, I just don’t know how to do this thing. And I get a lot of help from them and hopefully I help a lot of them too because, you know, I’ve got a skill set in one way and they’ve got a different skill set or different experience and we share with each other, but publicly we kind of have to, or we feel we’ve got to be like, I’ve got everything sorted out and I know what I’m doing. Trust in me and by my process. And while I can absolutely say that I think I know people can trust in the product, there’s things that I haven’t got worked out, like how do I market this product in a way that people understand it because it’s new and it’s different and it sits in a sort of unique space.
And so like, I try to be as honest about that as I possibly can because I just think, like, that’s really more authentic to me. And also I think that the more that we over inflate how easy it is, the harder it’ll be for like next generation. And I don’t mean that like as in the next generation of youth. I mean like the person who’s six months behind you. Because I think it’s really interesting the people I learn most from are the people who are like six months ahead of me in some way.
Caroline: Just a little bit ahead.
Gemma: Yeah. Or just a little bit. Yeah. Or they’ve just done something I’ve done. So they might have been in business for 12 years, but they’ve just launched something and I’m. Or they’ve just done like a piece on their website and I’m like, all right, how did you do that? I think we learn so much from the person who’s just ahead of you. Because actually the person who did it 20 years ago, it probably won’t work the same way. So we’ve got a lot of people in the ecosystem who are brilliant and they’ve built amazing businesses. But I do think like a lot of the time when you go to hear them speak, is they’re talking about something and they haven’t, what I think would be interesting is with their expert knowledge and with the years of experience and seeing what the market’s like now is for them to say, if I was to do it all again tomorrow, this is how I would do it. These are the areas I would focus in, rather than how did you do it? Because what they did 10, 15 years ago, 20 years ago, it’s very unlikely to work in the same way now. The world is just so different. So, yeah, I just, I think there’s like some magic in there.
Caroline: Oh, definitely. I think there can be a bit of a danger to like over glamorising this as a career path.
Gemma: Oh, yeah.
Caroline: I did a talk last week because I used to be an engineer by background.
Gemma: Yeah.
Caroline: So I was speaking to a room full of engineers online and I was like, yes, I’ve done some amazing things, but it is really tough. Like I am in no way going to, you know, tell you to go quit your jobs tomorrow because it’s not for the faint hearted and there’s so much to learn. But actually that’s one of the beautiful things is that there, there, you know, there’s so many opportunities, there’s so many things that you can do, there’s so many amazing people you can meet as well. Like, yeah, people doing this show. I have met so many people that have been, you know, generous with their time and sharing their stories and their insights and their learnings and yeah, I would not have been able to do any of this if I hadn’t started on this entrepreneurial journey, so…
Gemma: But you would, you would have navigated, you would have found a way. Because like, here’s my thought on that is because if you’ve got entrepreneurial spirit, you’ll just find a way, right? You’ll just find a way. You’ll pivot a hundred times, but you’ll just find a way to do the thing that you want to do and you’ll move and pivot. But yeah, I always think that you’ll find a way, so to speak.
But it’s interesting you say about like the ecosystem, like, I think Scotland really punches above its weight in terms of like the ecosystem. I think like we’ve got brilliant advisors is like quite a strong structure of an ecosystem and I think they really encourage us to do what you can with what’s available to us, if that makes sense. And I think some really special things in there. But I also think that there’s some definite ways that things could be improved in the ecosystem. But I think there’s a thing that you could show kindness to founders in a way that if you’re not a founder, is to just listen and not give advice. That would be my biggest, biggest piece of advice is because like, I sort of compare it to having like a toddler. Like if the toddler was having a tantrum, you wouldn’t go over and give that parent like advice. It’s none of your business. There’s something about having like a toddler sized business so like it’s maybe one or two years old that people just absolutely feel the need to give you advice all the time. And it can be very noisy in your head when someone’s like, have you thought about XYZ? And I have this face that I can feel like, come on. And I’ve got to put this blank face on. I’m like, oh, great idea, like I’m living and eating this thing 24 7. Yes, I’ve thought of that. And yes, I only have two sets of hands and I’m the Chief Everything Officer. But yeah, it’s like, I think like, because we met, you know, Women’s Enterprise session, a lot of the people in the room were founders and like we have like this shared commonality even though we’re all changing the world in different ways. There’s just this thing of like you kind of get each other because you understand the risk and the, the blood, sweat and tears that have gone into creating your thing and how you want to grow it. So I think there’s like a common ground and there’s like a, there’s a safety of being around other founders that you can be really authentic and tell them like the good, the bad and the ugly and like the challenges that you’re working on. But that takes also a bit of time because you kind of have to leave your ego a little bit at the door of like admitting that it’s really hard because you don’t really want to tell people like how hard it can be. So yeah, I’m always very grateful of opportunities when I could talk to people about the challenges of it.
Caroline: The reality, yeah.
Gemma: Because like, yeah, yeah, also like, there’s the realities of, like, finding your first hundred customers or finding, like, you know, trying to, like, I’m currently on a journey just now about trying to figure out how to fund, like, the growth in my business. And, like, I’ve probably been given advice by a hundred different people. All of it’s slightly different. And, like, which one’s true? I don’t know.
Caroline: No, it’s overwhelming, yeah.
Gemma: So it’s just… Yeah, yeah.
Caroline: Yeah. I think your advice there about making the space to listen and, like, the safe space to be able to share what’s going on and yeah, not, not then have any expectation for someone to give you the answers. It’s because. Well, actually, just before we came on, I was talking about how sometimes my husband sits next to me and we’re working along together and he’ll be doing his coding and he likes to, like, sometimes, like, talk out loud. Not because I can actually help him or even, like, constructively, you know, do anything, to be honest, because I’m not a coder, but I think just that act of him saying it out loud and me kind of half listening, he’ll sometimes be able to figure out himself. And I think there’s definitely. There’s an element of that, isn’t there? And. And you know, when people give advice, it’s obviously with good intentions. It is always with good intentions.
Gemma: Yeah, always, yeah always.
Caroline: But it doesn’t. It doesn’t always help when you’ve got so many other things in your head that you feel overwhelmed even more. Yeah.
Gemma: Yeah. And I think, like, there’s this quote I’ve read about kindness, and it’s something. I’m not going to remember it correctly, but it’s something about, like, the best form of kindness is truth. And actually, I think there’s a nuance to that. And actually the best form of kindness for me, is me being able to speak my truth and being able to just talk through something. Like, some of the kindest things that my friends and family have done, whether it’s in this business or other aspects of my life, is just, like, being able to tell them what’s going on inside my head and just hear myself say it, saying all this. I’m chatty as anything. I can talk for Scotland, maybe. And that often comes across as people don’t necessarily think I’m listening if they don’t know me that well, because I just. I can do lots of talking and I can get excited about whatever they’re saying and I want to jump in and all that sort of stuff. But actually, like, I really try hard to give people, when they’re talking to me, like, the space to tell me what they actually want to get off their chest. And then saying like, and I’ll ask the question, and do you want advice, or do you want my take on it? And like, I try to always ask rather than jump in and be like, here’s what to do. Because actually that’s maybe not what they need. Sometimes they just need to hear themselves say it. So I think like there’s something in all of that that probably wraps up nicely about the kindness thing and like giving people space to talk like what’s going on in their head.
Caroline: And it probably even relates back to our, like our health as well and what’s happening inside of our bodies as well. Because yeah, often, you know, if it is a kind of long-term health condition, you know, there may not be a solution as such. And sometimes talking about it can, you know, maybe reduce the stress levels or at least help you to feel like you’re not going through it alone.
Gemma: Exactly. And just to like, sometimes you can’t connect the dots until you say things out loud. So you might then identify things that you’re doing that you haven’t clocked that might be impacting your gut health. So like I said before about those five things is sometimes when you know, you say like, well what’s going on with you? Just. And you might actually just answer like, oh, well, I’ve been a bit stressed. Oh well actually, you know, you just, you need to sort of have that spider web of information like come out.
Caroline: Yeah. So that does link it all together really nicely. Now that we’ve gotten on to kind of the theme of kindness. Whenever I have my guests on, I always love to ask them how they create their kind space. So the things that you maybe do for yourself if you get time or make time, what are the things that you gravitate towards that you know are always going to give you that kind of wellbeing boost?
Gemma: Yeah, so I do like lots of things that I probably just almost do as like second nature. But like for me sleep is like my absolute priority. Like I just, if I don’t sleep well, I’m not good. So everybody’s idea of a good night’s sleep or what helps them have a good night’s sleep is different. But like for me it’s.. I’ve got a really dark room which like so there’s that. And I also have a weighted blanket. So it’s a 20 kg. It’s a 20 kg blanket which when I tell people they’re like that sounds mental because like 20 kilogrammes heavy. But the way that it works is it’s got little beads, heavy weighted beads, and they’re all like sewn into squares so the weight is very evenly distributed across you. And what it does is it’s like the equivalent if you’ve ever stayed in a really nice hotel, you sometimes have a really heavy blanket and you’re a bit like, phew to start with, it’s a bit overwhelming, but it just really calms my, like, my breathing down. It just like, I get under it. And I was recommended it by a friend. And I remember the first time I put it on, it was like, what was life before that and now what’s life after it?
Caroline: Wow.
Gemma: Like, it’s that life like that life changing for me, which sounds, you know, it sounds like hyperbole, but it’s not like it genuinely changed like how I sleep. I used to be a terrible sleeper. I used to, I used to fight sleep and like, stay up really, really late. Like, even as a kid, like, I really just didn’t like going to…. Well, I liked being asleep, but I didn’t like going to sleep and I didn’t like staying asleep. So it’s a bit of a… doesn’t sound very… well and I used to say that I was an insomniac. I wasn’t, I just wasn’t having, like I wasn’t having… making like good sleep patterns for myself. So sleep’s like my main kindness I do for myself. And then the other thing is walking. So I much to the annoyance of some of my friends and my family is like, I like to walk and I like to walk fast. Like, I, you know, like sometimes if you’re walking along the street and like you accidentally get into like a race with somebody because they happen to be walking fast, like, that’s me. Like, I can’t help it. I want to move and I want to move quickly, like to the point where I can get a little bit out of breath with walking because I really, I just like to make pace, like, yeah, make haste and go. And so I have to really work hard, to like slow down to walk when I’m with other people, which is not my normal. But those are like two things that I do, like, importantly for me, like every day. And then the other one is more just around like, kindness of like, being with other people and like watching how or trying to watch, like, how I talk to myself about things. So I give myself at times a hard time in a way that I never would to my best friend or my family, for example, or to like a perfect stranger, but I do. We all have this like sort of at times negative self-talk. And when I hear my friends doing it to themselves or like people in my family or whoever, it really bothers me. I’m like, hang on, why are you talking to yourself like that? But like, I think we all do it and that’s something I really like try at times. So the vast majority of the time I’m like, don’t have this negative self-talk. That’s fine. But when I do, I can kind of spiral a little bit with it and I give myself like a hard time about things that I want to achieve, and I’ve not done it the way I wanted. And I’ve got a recent example of like, I pitched something last week and I didn’t give the pitch that I wanted, but I actually, I gave myself like a touch of negative self-talk, but it was a touch of it rather than a spiral. I just was like, you know what? I just didn’t do what I wanted to do on the day. But that hasn’t taken away from the fact of all the effort I put in and you know that I reminded myself of all the positives of that day. And like, I’m allowed to have an off day. It’s a pretty big day to have an off day, but that’s okay. But yeah, I like, I… those are sort of like three things that I try to do, like in terms of kindness. And I also have this thing like, and I’m thinking about this because we’re in December now is every year I give myself a word. What’s going to be my word of the year of like something I’m kind of going to focus on. And I’ve lost track with the one in 2024 for a variety of reasons.
Caroline: Oh you don’t remember what it was?
Gemma: It’s just literally it’s been, it’s just been a, it’s been an odd year for me, like personally with my business. Like, there’s just been. It’s just been a bit… chaotic isn’t quite the right word. But like it, it hasn’t gone to plan. So like anything that’s off the plan is a bit like up and down, but that’s fine. And it’s, it’s all gone really well for the end of the year. But if I set up my plan for this year, I haven’t really done that or the journey to get there hasn’t been the same. But like my, my year, my upcoming year is definitely going to be the year of like my health. Of health. So it’s about like, like doing the solid, consistent all, all year, next year. One of the things, like I’ve got a Strava that like tracks my walking and I haven’t really been doing it this year and I’m actually embarrassed, like now I have walked, but I’m embarrassed that that’s my tracking. Even though no one else sees it, it’s only me. So that’s one of the things that I’m gonna really work on for next year is like my, my health as a general. So health, exercise, movement. So yeah, what do you do?
Caroline: Yeah, I, I might need to join you on your year of health. My word of the year for this year was grace because I felt like…
Gemma: Oh, nice.
Caroline: I just needed to give myself a bit more space and understanding and kindness and yeah, I think it maybe goes back to your point about, you know, the voices that we have in our heads that sometimes, you know, they’re trying to push us, you know, to do better. But often it can be, you know, counterproductive. So I just felt like this year needed to be a year where I just felt like I could be myself and like, not. Yeah, not… I don’t know what the word is, but yeah, I just, I needed a quiet year.
Gemma: Yeah, just give yourself a grace.
Caroline: Yeah, I don’t, I don’t know what my word will be for next year. We’re doing, we’re actually doing dream boarding workshop as part of the women in tech group that I run up here in Aberdeen. I think we’re going to do it online in the middle of January. So we’ve got an amazing lady called Tess Day who’s going to come and facilitate the workshop. So you’re welcome to come to that as well if you like. I think I’m going to use that to help me properly focus on what my plan is for next year.
Gemma: Yeah, oh that sounds good. It’s interesting that you use the word grace. So there’s a brand of yoga studios in London called Fierce Grace and years ago I bought one of their yoga towels. So I put on top of my yoga mat and haven’t really been going very often this year. I think I’ve been four times the whole year, whereas the year before I probably was going four times a week. So four times in a year is just not comparible. On their yoga mat, on one side if you put it down it says like fierce and on the other side it says grace. And you’re supposed to sort of set your intention for the start of your class. And historically I would always do fierce. Like I’m gonna have a fierce yoga class which I know sounds mad, but it’s like hot yoga. So you go with like an intent to like get really sweaty and like really out of your head for the hour or 90 minute class. Whereas the four times I’ve been this year are grace. And I would never describe myself as like graceful. Like I’m not, like, I’m not necessarily a graceful person but I was like giving myself that this year of like I just. Yeah, I’m going to give my… when I do make it to yoga, it’s going to be about like just giving myself the grace I made it today and that’s okay. And so it’s really interesting that you used that word. So there’s like another commonality. It just shows like, you know, like we see… we’ve met each other at an awards event and like you just don’t know what you’re going to find out as being the common ground between someone. Right. Because like you don’t get into the depth of anything. Yeah it’s interesting.
Caroline: No. There’s probably far more connections as well. I’m really hoping. Yeah, that we get to spend some more time together in the year to come and yeah, I will be cheering you on and can be a listening ear if any time you require that.
Gemma: Thank you, and same, same.
Caroline: Yeah. But no, it’s been so wonderful catching up, I think before we go. So because I, I forgot this when I did my, my last interview, I need to make sure that people know where to find you and if they’re interested in checking out your products and things, like where can they go?
Gemma: So yeah. The product itself is called Gut Wealth. It’s a liquid supplement for people with digestive. So you get it, oh here we go [lifts up sachet to the camera]
Caroline: Okay.Yeah. So it’s just a little sachet?
A little sachet. So it’s an orange citrus flavour and it’s got a postbiotic which is a type of good bacteria or beneficial bacteria for your gut. And it calms digestive upset, improves bowel regularity and really improves bloating. So it comes in a pack of 14. But we typically tell people to do a trial of like four to eight weeks to be able to compare to your normal. Now I use the word normal because there isn’t really a normal for gut health. Right.
Caroline: Yeah, so a longer time to kind of see does it, does it feel like it’s making a difference? That little pack, is that, so is that small enough to go through the letter box as well yeah?
Gemma: Yeah, yeah. One of my big mistakes at starting the business is like I made it in a pack originally that didn’t quite fit through the letter box. The lesson learned and we improve and that’s what we do, we keep improving and pivoting. But, yeah, like, the whole thing is like, I don’t want to sound like an infomercial, but it’s tear, sip and go. So you tear it, drink it and away you go. And you don’t need to worry about your gut health for the rest of the day, hopefully. And so, yeah, for convenience, that’s one of the big things that people really enjoy about it. But also, obviously the health benefits. So, yeah, so you can buy them direct at gut wealth dot co dot uk, it is slightly more expensive on Amazon, so I always encourage you to buy direct. And please don’t tell Amazon that because Amazon might delist us. Yeah, it’s slightly cheaper and there’s usually like, so sorry, in December there is currently an offer if you go onto the site, you’ll be able to see it there. So, yeah, thanks so much for giving me the opportunity to talk about this as well, it’s, like, really great of you. I listened to three of the podcasts before. I really, really love the one about, like, decluttering, like…
Caroline: Oh yeah, Debbie, you and Debbie would get on like a house on fire. She is so amazing.
Gemma: Well, I’d also be worried about her coming to my house. I know she says that she’s not, like, judgmental, but, like, I’m not… things in my house don’t have a place. So I was feeling inspired when I was listening to that. But also being kind to myself, like, do you know what? If that’s not in my wheelhouse right now, to have everything, have a place, then so be it. But also really enjoyed listening to Clara’s podcast with you. So, like, if people are listening to us, I encourage them to go back and listen.
Caroline: Yeah, Dr Clara.She’s written a really powerful book called doctor Interrupted about her experiences of being diagnosed with MS. And the kind of journey that she’s been on. And yeah, she. She’s a very amazing, inspirational person, as are you.
Gemma: Oh, yeah.
Caroline: People need to also follow you on LinkedIn because Gemma shares loads of all the behind the scenes of all the stuff that you get up to and like that, that proper, like, reality check, I think, I think people will find really refreshing. Yeah. So what is your LinkedIn? Is it just under your name? Gemma Stewart.
Gemma: Yeah, so it’s just under Gemma Stewart. So Gemma with a G and S, T, U, A R, T. I think you can just do LinkedIn dot com forward slash Gemma Stuart. But you’ll be able to find me. I’m the person who is a LinkedIn bottom voice, as I say. I really love connecting with people there for lots of reasons, but also, like, I just use LinkedIn to really learn from others. I know a lot of people use it to sell, but for me, I learn so much and like the connections from people on LinkedIn and so I’ve really enjoyed building a network there because it’s very real to me. It’s not just like a numbers thing, it’s about, like actually learning from each other. So, yeah, I think it’s a brilliant tool.
Caroline: It’s my favourite platform. I’ve met so many beautiful people.
Gemma: Yeah, I’m not really on any of their ones anymore. I definitely need to be on for Instagram, but of all the priorities, like social media, like on Instagram, I just don’t have it in me right now. And so that’s like another thing of just giving myself the space of just do what I can do.
Caroline: Some grace.
Gemma: Yeah, mm mm.
Caroline: Yeah, yeah. Oh, thank you so much.
Gemma: No problem.
Caroline: You have been such a beautiful guest. And yes, this is the last show of 2024.
Gemma: Woo
Caroline: I hope people have enjoyed this year because I certainly have. And yeah, we’ll see you in the new year.
Gemma: Thank you. Lovely to talk to you. Thanks for having me.
Caroline: Bye. Bye.
Caroline: What a fantastic way to end 2024! I think the big takeaway for me from my discussion with Gemma was the power of being honest about our struggles – whether that’s with our health, our businesses, or just life in general. Gemma’s openness about living with IBS and the realities of running a business really resonated with me.
Thank you so much for being part of the Create Your Kindspace community this year. I’ve loved sharing these conversations with you, and I can’t wait to bring you more inspiring guests in 2025.
Until then, keep creating your kindspace.
Thank you so much for listening all the way to the end, before you go, I have a little favour to ask, so if you’ve liked this episode, please screenshot it, tag us on social media @createyourkindspace and maybe share what your key takeaway was from the episode. It would also be so wonderful if you could rate and review this podcast as it helps other people to find it. Thank you so much.
Disclaimer:
The information on this podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. You should seek the advice of an appropriately qualified healthcare professional before making decisions about your own circumstances. You should not disregard, or delay seeking professional medical advice because of any information contained on this podcast.
Unless specifically mentioned on the podcast, Create Your Kindspace and Caroline Laurenson do not formally endorse or have any affiliation with any product or service mentioned in the podcast. The opinions and content provided and/or shared by any third-party guests, any third-party material or third-party website referenced in this podcast does not necessarily reflect the opinions or policies of Create Your Kindspace and Caroline Laurenson.
