Understand Brain Health, Sleep and Nutrition with Dr. Clara Doran

Imagine you’ve just become a mum for the first time, but you’re struggling with your health. Appointment after appointment, test after test, you finally get the news you have Multiple Sclerosis. My guest, Dr Clara Doran, opens up about her diagnosis and experience of living with a long-term health condition. She also shares how writing about her feelings and the challenges of becoming the patient instead of the doctor and how has led to her forthcoming memoir, Dr Interrupted. I can’t wait to find out more, so let’s dive in.

Timestamps:

00:02:16             Pursuing Medicine and General Practice

00:03:38             The AccelerateHer Programme's Impact

00:06:13             Doing Scary Things & Funny First Times

00:08:19             Discovering Brain Health and Founding Noggin

00:13:25             Living with Multiple Sclerosis

00:16:41             Sleeping and Newborns

00:19:00             Prioritising Sleep for Brain Health

00:27:51             Nutrition Tips for Better Sleep

00:36:20             The Journey of Writing a Memoir

00:47:03             Creating Kind Spaces through Writing

00:49:54             Looking Ahead: Children's Brain Health Product

Links:

Website: https://nogginbrain.co.uk/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/NogginTheBrainPeople/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/nogginthebrainpeople/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-clara-doran-mbbs-mrcgp-81667958/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nogginbrain/

X: https://twitter.com/NogginPeople

Curtis Brown Writing Courses: https://www.curtisbrowncreative.co.uk/creative-writing-courses

Big Feelings: How to Be Okay When Things Are Not Okay: https://amzn.to/3J5k4gA

The Psychology Mum - A Toolkit for Your Emotions: 45 ways to feel better https://amzn.to/49qZ8Ls

Transcript:

Caroline: I am so excited because I have the huge privilege of speaking to the amazing Dr. Clara Doran today, and our topic is going to be around brain health. Clara is the founder of Noggin Brain Health and has been on an amazing journey, and I think it would be just wonderful for everyone to meet her. I am always inspired by the founders I meet, and definitely Clara is up there in terms of an inspirational story, an inspirational journey, and I can't wait to dive into that. So, welcome, Clara, thank you so much for giving me some of your time. So, yes, you are a doctor, you worked as a GP. So, to kick us off, maybe you could tell us a bit about how did that come about? How did you end up getting into general practise?

Clara: Well, firstly, thanks for having me and thanks for that very kind introduction. So, yeah, I am from Edinburgh and trained in Newcastle in medicine, and the course in Newcastle was very sort of patient focused from the very beginning, which is part of the reason I went there. And it was really, I think, through that experience and kind of my own sort of personal drive to really be involved with patients as early and as much as possible, that general practise sort of appeared as the right career path for me. I like the idea of the variation, obviously, building relationships with patients over the longer term where possible. And, yeah, I think just the sort of community fields, general practise, being a doctor in any level is a privilege, but I think working in the community, seeing people just in off the street sort of thing, in their very sort of, that sort of state, is just a really privileged role to be in. And GP was the choice I made based on all those things.

Caroline: Oh, amazing. Yeah. So a real calling. I think it's interesting. Maybe I could tell people a bit about how we met as well. So we are both founders and we actually met through a programme run by AccelerateHer. If anyone is listening and needs support in that area, you probably recommend them as well. Clara, one of my first things I did was their boot camp, and maybe that was like, was pre pandemic because we were in person, and I was really interested to know how you first got connected with them and that kind of part of your journey, of how did you get into entrepreneurship?

Clara: Yeah, I think accelerate her was a great experience and, yeah, boot camp was the first sort of connection I had with that as well. I did it remotely and I think it really came about because our business came about from such a personal need that we focused on the products and what we were looking to create and the mission behind it. And then really sort of the business element of it came sort of secondary. And so once we had the products, it was really about how I was going to learn how to talk about the products and talk about our business and talk about myself. And I looked for ways of kind of getting some help with that and AccelerateHer was a great sort of starting point. From that. We did the boot camp. I did the boot camp remotely, which I think, again, for me was brilliant because I was so terrified of the prospect, that I think if it had been in person, it might have put me off doing it at home kind of felt like, because I guess anytime you're doing something brand new, I was just thinking, gosh, what is this really going to be like? Are they going to be nice? And of course, they were extremely nice and extremely encouraging. And everyone that I met on the boot camp was kind of saying the same thing, how nerve wracking it was. And again, I think it just makes you feel like it isn't just you. It's tricky talking about your business and talking about what you want to do and learning what that is. It's a new skill and you need people to help you do that. So AccelerateHer were great in that regard.

Caroline: Yeah. It's such a lovely network, and I think it is that peer support element that is probably the strongest part. And us all being able to support each other and kind of help look out for opportunities and then just a sounding board or some reassurance when we are having those kind of nervous moments of like, oh, my gosh, this thing is coming up and I'm really like scared. I've got International Women's Day next week, so I'm doing a keynote speech and I'm like, can I do this? Can I? And I’m like. Yeah I can.

Clara: Of course you can. Yes. That's big, but, yeah. Well, good luck with that. Gosh. How are you feeling about it?

Caroline: I think it's going to go well. I've had some coaching support and I'm actually really glad that I did that because I feel like it's helped to make everything feel more cohesive, like the story and the narrative just feels more cohesive. And I like that, I think I'm going to be able to impart some really important knowledge, but in a way that's special and has emotion to it and just builds that connection. And I've never spoken in that way before. I say I've never spoken in that way before, not in an audience kind of way. But, yes, I'm sure it'll be good. Just have to remember to breathe.

Clara: Yes, definitely. Well, I always think of those things, as we call it, call them FFTs in our house, which is Funny First Time, and when you're doing something for the first time, you can never expect it to be this easy thing that you just know exactly how to do. So whenever, again, our son's ten, and so whenever he's talking about something and says, oh, I can't do it, and, oh, it was awful, or whatever, then I will say, well, that was your funny first time, so of course it was difficult. So I try and bring that to myself a bit as well. And, yeah, sounds like it might be applicable for you and your speech as well.

Caroline: That's really good advice. I've not heard that one before. Yes, and definitely really good for children, because I think they can often put pressure on themselves and feel like they need to do well for their parents and their teachers and all these things. They've got a lot of pressure on them. I love that. That's so beautiful.

Clara: Funny first time.

Caroline: That is definitely memorable as well. Awesome. So I would love for you to tell me a bit more about Noggin Brain Health and a little bit more about what kind of led you to create the products and what's the kind of, like, the why behind what you do.

Clara: As I sort of mentioned before, it was a really personal experience that took me really, to create noggin. Obviously, I was working in general practise, had my son and had some health challenges myself, just when he was very. A very small baby, which ultimately ended up being diagnosed as being multiple sclerosis, which is a scary sounding, degenerative neurological brain condition, which has no cure and unfortunately does affect people at a young age, particularly in Scotland. High number of people with MS and a lot of women as well, which I'd kind of known about professionally, but wasn't expecting to face it personally. And once that kind of became apparent and things kind of moved on in terms of going back to work and sort of dealing with it as part of the rest of my life, I really turned my attention to brain health and sort of ways, or what I could do to try and feel better. I was lucky to have great medical care and a great team. The team in Edinburgh are fantastic, but I just really felt like I wanted to know more about what I could do to look after my own brain. My son was very little at the time, and anyone that's a parent or experienced with young kids, they're changing all the time, they're learning so much. And so it was really sort of just a really kind of time where we were at opposite ends of the spectrum. I was worrying about things going wrong for me, and yet seeing my son kind of blossom and pick up everything that was going on around him. So, yeah, brains are amazing is the summary of that. And once I started to sort of dig into brain health, I really kind of realised there was loads I hadn't known before, even though I was a GP. And really the impact of our lifestyle on our brain health, how important that is for our wellbeing, how we feel, but also how risk of diseases and even sort of ongoing conditions, even when there is a diagnosis of something not so nice, those sort of lifestyle things are important to improving our symptoms and our overall sort of wellbeing and how we cope with it. So, yeah, big topic. And it took me on a big sort of journey of learning medicine in a different way. I'd studied functional medicine, which kind of just is slightly not really conventional medicine, but combines a more integrative approach to mind and body and looks at sort of root causes of diseases. So that was all really interesting. I studied sleep science and as part of all of that, nutrition came through as being a really important aspect, which in conventional medical training really does not, I mean, I think it's changing a bit now, but when I was training, it was very minimal, any sort of training in that area, which is understandable, there's lots you need to learn, and at that time it didn't really feature. But what I learned from studying about brain health is ultimately, our brains are extremely energy hungry organs, and therefore what we eat, how we eat and how nutrition impacts the brain is really, really important. And that kind of took me into the realm of supplements, which is, wow, that's a minefield in itself. So that's where we kind of really got into, gosh, there's a lot to learn here. And again, I was really lucky to work with some nutritionists who are really respected, both from a product formulatory point of view, loads of experience in that, but also from seeing patients and seeing clients over a number of years. So they had sort of front face experience with how nutritional supplements could really make an impact to people. So we worked with a great female team to develop the three products that we have at the moment.

Caroline: It's amazing, isn't it? I think you're absolutely right. When you think about brain health and how much we still need to learn about how our brains even work, it's a huge subject area, but I love that a lot of the things are, you know if it's related to lifestyle and your kind of holistic health, and you can make improvements in those areas, then it has an impact on your brain and the other organs in your body as well. So there are positive things that you can do to reduce your risk of some of these neurological conditions. Your experience, I guess, with multiple sclerosis, is probably something that others can identify with. I wasn't sure how prevalent it is as a condition. I did know that it affects women more than men. But is it quite common? Is there a support network out there for people with multiple sclerosis?

Clara: There's loads of support, actually. There is. And again, yeah, so there's obviously various charities, Ms Trust, MS Society, the very sort of active community in Scotland, but also worldwide. And I think one of the key things about MS is that it does tend to impact, or it's often diagnosed when people are young. So although it has the kind of sounds of an older person's disease, sort of degenerative, all those kind of words, people are often diagnosed into their 20s and 30s. So it's something. The support is actually very good in terms of how people live with a condition like MS. And those are the hashtags, really how people often describe it, is living with MS. Because again, we are actually in a fortunate stage that there are much, many more treatments available now. Whilst they don't impact the, they're not curative treatments, they are sort of disease modifying, supposedly disease modifying treatments and they can reduce the number of relapses. And again, depending on obviously how your disease progresses and obviously what you're prescribed, there are ways of managing it now, both medically and with social support and community support, which again, when you speak to people who are older with MS, maybe in their 60s or 70s, didn't have those same sort of options back when maybe they were diagnosed in their 20s and 30s. So it's positive in that sense. There's a lot of work being done. Edinburgh, there's Anne Rowling Clinic, there's a lot of research going on there as well. So if there is a positive phase for a condition like this, this is probably it. We're understanding more, the treatments are better and the support is there. But similarly, I think the main thing I've learned about it, and again, I think a lot of people who have chronic conditions, not even just brain conditions, but chronic conditions, would say how individual the experiences are. And I think that's definitely a tricky side of it, that your condition isn't the same, although it may have the same label, how it impacts people, varies day to day and varies dramatically from person to person. And I think that sort of uncertainty side of it, certainly for me, has been extremely challenging and has taken quite a bit of time to kind of get into feeling like I can handle that. And I think from speaking to other people, I think that's a tough part of it.

Caroline: Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. I can't begin to imagine having a newborn, having these symptoms and not really knowing what was happening and being worried about your health and your future and your family and all that happening and newborns. I don't know. Did your son sleep? Because I was not ready for the sleep deprivation when I had kids. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. That must have been such a tough time for you.

Clara: It was. And again, it would be ten years this year, actually, since I got my diagnosis, and that does feel like a bit of a landmark stage because obviously ten years is quite a long time, but also, yeah, so much has changed in that amount of time and, yeah, it's been a lot, but I feel I'm in a better stage with it. I was lucky again, it's not something I talked about at the time, but I was lucky that our son slept actually really well. So I was one of those few. Whilst there was a lot of difficult stuff going on, he really, from a very young age, got sleep routine locked down. So somebody was looking after me somewhere because that really made him at. Well, as you said, it's brutal without sleep and you don't know what's going on, do you? And, yeah, the fact that he slept was good.

Caroline: Shall I tell you something funny? So I once went to work, right? My son was probably only, like, ten months old. I hadn't been back to work for very long and I went to work with one green shoe and one black shoe. So I had these shoes, they were identical apart from the colour. So I didn't realise because they felt the same, obviously, I had them on the right feet, like one left and one right. And it wasn't until I got out the car.

Clara: Oh, God.

Caroline: And I was like, I can't go home. So the whole day in the office, and then I had the dentist later that day.

Clara: Oh, no. So your feet are lying up on the.

Caroline: It's so funny to look back and how delirious I must have been. Actually, you know what? It's not really a laughing matter, so sleep, it has such an impact on our health and well being and our brains and actually, that was one of the big reasons why I was really keen to have you come on the podcast because I thought it'd be really useful for people, if sleep is something that they're struggling with to get tips from an expert. And actually my other sort of. I don't want you to feel like this is a GP appointment, but my other thought process was. So my husband, Thomas, who is my co founder as well, I can't remember if I mentioned to you before, if we've talked about this before. So he has a history of strokes, and ever since his first stroke, sleep has actually been a big issue for him. I can't think of the night where he slept through the night. He often wakes up multiple times and I don't know, it's probably somewhat to do with his health condition, but also maybe the medication as well. So he has to take medication to thin his blood and make it less sticky. Yeah. So I feel like there's the kind of general thing of people having issues with sleep that might be a transient thing, so there's sometimes when they sleep fine and then maybe there's stresses that add to the issues in the evenings and at nighttime, but then there's people that have long term health conditions that can make sleep more difficult. So, yeah, while I've got you, I'd love to know, what are your top tips?

Clara: It's such an important topic, first and foremost. And I think, again, if I could go back and if I were to keep a tally of all the patients I saw over all those years in general practise, I could comfortably say that sleep was something that we talked about all the time. Obviously, it wasn't every consultation, but I would say it's probably at least three quarters. It fed into something. And I sort of wish I knew then what I know now, because I think I would have been able to offer a bit more practical advice to people because I think it's like this sort of enigma, really. You go to bed, you go to sleep and then you wake up and actually loads of different things happen in your brain overnight. And it isn't just about energy and feeling sort of ready to face the day. There's a whole load of sort of biological processes that actually go on during sleep. There's multiple stages of sleep that our brain goes through and that all impacts on those processes and how effectively they are done and impacts how we feel the next day and can also be linked to some of the risks of some of these longer term conditions. So there's a reason it's a medical specialty on its own, and that's because there's so many different elements to it, which I think obviously we just sort of take for granted until you probably have an issue or like you say, if you've got the experience with your husband and see how when it doesn't go well, how it can impact you. So, yeah, I think the first thing I would think of is that being aware that it's a natural process and we will all go to bed and sleep, we have to. It's biologically programmed. That's what will happen. But actually, what goes on when we are asleep is so critical to other aspects of our health that I think really prioritising sleep is so important. If you are feeling under the weather with different things, feeling low in mood or things like trying to lose weight, all those kind of things. Actually, starting with your sleep routine is a critical place to start. And I think sort of you mentioned tips about that. And for me, I would say my top tip around sleep would really be that your sleep doesn't just happen when you go to bed. The quality of your sleep actually starts from when you get up in the morning. And it's important to think of sleep and the benefits of sleep, in terms of quality, consistency and the duration of your sleep. So if you read anything about it in newspapers or articles or anything, the sort of duration that said for adults is 78, not 78, seven to eight hours of sleep per night. But in reality, a lot of us are not getting that amount. And I think it's at least a third of adults are not getting that quality of that sort of duration of sleep. And I think based on my experience anyway, I'm sure it's probably even more so. Yeah, I think knowing that's what we should be getting, but then knowing that a lot of us are not getting, first of all, maybe a bit of comfort that again, you're not alone if you're struggling with sleep and then ways of trying to tackle it, as I say, it starts with you when you wake up in the morning, and that really starts with sort of daylight exposure. Our brains are actually quite simple in some ways that they want to be awake in the daylight and asleep at night. And modern life does as much as it can to confuse us on when it's not day and night because of devices. So getting outside or getting exposure to daylight early is really important to trigger the light receptors in a certain part of our brain that this is daytime, this is alert time, and this is when we need to be awake. So I think that's an important starting point. I think the other thing I would say, sort of in terms of daytime activities is around caffeine intake and being aware that, again, coffee shops are everywhere. And again, it's so much part of our routine now to go for coffee, and that's great. But coffee and caffeine into the afternoon evening is going to impact your ability to fall asleep. Caffeine can stay in your body for about seven to 8 hours after drinking. So even if you have as much as that, so a half life can be that length of time. So even if you're having a coffee in the early afternoon, whilst you're not getting the full benefit at eight or seven or eight at night, there's still going to be that caffeine kind of circulating. Now, we're all different. Obviously, for some of us, we metabolise caffeine quicker, so it's not for everyone. But if we're struggling with sleep, thinking about caffeine and when you're drinking, it is important. So those are some of my starting points. I think those are the daytime things I'd think about. So really trying to sort of after twelve, one cutting out any caffeine options are important ways to try and help you fall asleep at night. I think the other things, I guess the other big thing really is screens and use of screens. And this is where we get into.

Caroline: It's a light thing again, isn't it?

Clara: It's the light thing. It's a light thing and it's the content of what we're looking at. And I think it is part of modern life. So again, obviously the ideal is that we turn the screens off at least a couple of hours before bed and that to get optimal sleep. And again, if you're struggling with sleep, I think that is really important to prioritise that, because we do know that a blue light from the screens is activating this part of our brain where there is the light receptors and it's confusing it basically that this is time to be awake and it's not. So there's that to be in mind of. And then it's also the emotional aspect of what you're looking at. Because I think even when we think we're watching something funny or. I don't know. Yeah, like passively, you're still having emotional reactions or even messaging friends, even if it's all good news, which is. That's obviously good. But again, there's a time for it and actually going to bed isn't the right time because it does create this sort of emotional response that can negatively impact your ability to wind down. And even when they look at, they've looked at sleep studies for people that do use their devices into the evening. And again, there are some people, of course, everyone's different. So there are some people that would say, well, I'm on my phone till whenever and I sleep fine. But actually, when you look at sleep studies of people who are using devices late at night, even if they do sleep through the night, so they are getting the duration of sleep, the quality of the sleep isn't as good. They're not going through the sleep cycles into the deep restorative phase of sleep that we really need, as well as those who don't use the devices at nighttime. So those things are definitely important.

Caroline: That's all really good advice. One thing I've noticed, and actually I'm noticing it today because I had my dinner so much later last night because I was at an event and I did not sleep well at all. And I feel like it's because my body was digesting. It was so busy, like I am digesting, that my brain was like, wait a minute, I'm supposed to be working here. Everyone else is supposed to be off duty now.

Clara: Completely. Yeah, no, absolutely. That's such a good point. Definitely that sort of bedtime eating late obviously is not good, as you just said. And again, that's just because you're digesting your meal. Also, again, it's the volume of what you've eaten and again, the content. So again, if you're eating sort of sugary foods and those kind of things, not saying you were at your dinner.

Caroline: Sticky toffee pudding.

Clara: That's the one.

Caroline: And I had a bit of tablet as well. So yeah, there is no way I was going to have a good night's sleep.

Clara: And again, I think the important thing about that as well is we've got to enjoy ourselves as well. I think that sort of two things can be true. So yes, that will impact your, probably eating late as a real will impact the quality of your sleep. Avoid it if you can. And I think, again, if you're struggling and you're looking at ways to try and sleep better, that's an important thing to try and amend and try and avoid eating within sort of two to three hours of bedtime. And even then, think about your portion sizes of what you're eating because again, big amounts will just take longer to digest. But then also, yes, of course there's going to be times where that isn't possible and kind of observing how that impacts you is important. But again, as a one off or different things, then enjoying it is probably more important than worrying about it. But as a routine earlier. Earlier eating is good. Watching the sugar, I guess one thing, though, that is interesting again, is most of us are familiar with the idea of being hangry, and it's not a nice feeling during the day, but you can also get hangry overnight, depending on what you've eaten before you go to bed or what you've eaten during the day. And that's all linked to sort of blood sugar and how what you've eaten impacts your blood sugar and your metabolism. So again, it's thinking about what you're eating and trying to not make it too sugary as your evening meal or dessert, making sure you're having protein and some healthy carbohydrates to keep your energy going, because, again, your brain is busy overnight. It needs that energy, but you want it to be in the best form. And unfortunately, sugary treats and processed things are not good.

Caroline: No. Well, there's so much in the news just now about ultra processed food and refined sugar. I think we know these things are not good for us, but we maybe don't realise that the impact is not just putting on weight, it actually affects our brain and our organs as well.

Clara: Yeah, definitely. And I think weight and sleep, it sounds weird to say if you're trying to lose weight or trying to maintain a healthy weight, start with going to bed. Like, it's completely counterintuitive. But actually, because when you go to sleep, it isn't just about energy. Part of what happens in those deep phases of sleep is about hormone production and the two hormones that control your appetite and control how hungry you are impacted by the quality of your sleep. So it's ghrelin, is the one that controls how hungry you are, and when you don't sleep very well, that production is increased. And then lectin is the one that controls how full you are. And when you don't sleep very well, that production is less. So sleep quality down or sleep duration down, you're going to feel more hungry, but less full. So you're in this kind of very…

Caroline: That’s a double.

Clara: Yeah. So you're up against it. Like, again, if you're not sleeping, if you're quality of sleep and you're not sleeping very well and you're trying to lose weight, you're almost. What's the word? I can't think of the phrase, but you're not giving yourself the best chance to put that way because of these hormonal processes that are going on. And then you add into the fact that you probably are a bit tired and feeling a bit rubbish. So the last thing you want to do is go for a run or go for a walk or make a healthy choice about food. You just want to snuggle in, watch a movie, eat junk and feel better, and that's kind of what happens. And therefore, you're in that sort of cycle, not losing weight, not feeling rested, probably feeling a bit bad about the fact that you're not doing the things you know you should be. And it just all kind of goes round on itself. So, yeah, again, it comes back to prioritising the quality of your sleep, the routine of going to bed and doing that consistently as much as you can. And again, it's not going to change in one night, and that works both ways. So again, one late night or one bad night or whatever, it's not something to worry too much about, but it's about what becomes habit and what becomes routine, and that's where it can be trickier to move past it.

Caroline: Yeah, that's all really valuable advice. Thank you. I was thinking about a big part of your research has been into nutrition. And what have you found in your research in terms of. I don't want to call it superfoods or things, but are there certain elements that your brain benefits from the most, like when it comes to helping with sleep?

Clara: Yeah. Well, again, I think what it mostly benefits from is consistency in terms of what you're eating. I think there's a lot, as you said, there's a lot of talk about ultraprocessed food at the moment. And I think that's just going to continue because we know there's lots of things in there that are disrupting our, again, gut microbiome and how we digest, and that also links back to our brain. So again, in terms of eating, for sleeping, to try and help with your sleep, again, it's about the routine of when you're eating, it's thinking about those sugary foods and the things that are going to spike your blood sugar. And again, even if you're not sure whether something's sugary or not, again, obviously chocolate and things we know are. But some of those more starchier products, like maybe trying to think baked croissants or those kind of things where you feel you get that immediate sort of lift of energy, but actually the energy crash goes really quickly. And again, that is all because of this sort of blood sugar spike, which our brain does not like. And again, over periods of time, that will impact on our sleep quality. So eating regular meals at regular times, looking at sort of whole foods and home cooked foods and trying to avoid the processed stuff as much as possible is important. Water is another really big one. Super boring. But again, hydration is key to how brain functions and that's important for sleep as well. So again, making sure you're drinking enough water during the day, but not so much in the evening that you're getting up towards the toilet too much, because then obviously, then you're undoing all your good work. Yes. Specific foods that I know have been helpful for trying to sleep or if you're looking at that type of thing, obviously cherries. We know there are certain types of cherries. It helps with melatonin production. So that's quite an interesting one. Kiwi fruit is another one that's.

Caroline: I'd heard that.

Clara: Yeah, that's quite a useful one as well. But again, I think it's really about kind of the whole daytime routine and what you're doing the whole time.

Caroline: So that’s more important. Yeah. You're not going to find a magic superfood that'll solve your issues.

Clara: Yeah. Again, I don't think there's anything, there's things that can help you feel more relaxed in terms of even supplements and teas and those kind of things. But if you're, you know sleep is a lifelong good habit that you want to build, and as part of that, you want to build daily habits that support that sleep at night.

Caroline: Yeah. Amazing. Thank you. The one thing that I saw this week, because you shared it online, was about your memoir and the book that you're writing. So I definitely wanted to spend some time talking about that because it's really exciting. I think for anyone thinking about writing a book, that's a big undertaking. So maybe you could kind of talk us through how has that come about and how's it going? And do you have any advice for anyone else listening that's maybe thinking about a memoir or a book?

Clara: Yeah, well, thank you for asking that. Yeah, I did post this week and, yeah, it's something I'm so excited about. I always wanted to write, really, whilst medicine was what I wanted to do, I was writing with the other thing that I really liked, and English, and stories and all those kind of things. So I did go through a phase of thinking, oh, is this the right thing? Should I be doing that instead? But actually, obviously, I'm glad the choice I made. But, yeah, I think it was through reading again. I mean, I've always read, but a few years ago there was sort of a real surge, I think, in sort of started reading more memoirs, medical memoirs, but also just other things as well. And from reading about other people's experiences, it really made me kind of think, actually, I've got experiences, too, that I think are something that definitely I want to write about. I don't know if anyone wants to read about, but I'm going to start by writing them down. And I guess that's what I would say as a starting point for anyone that is thinking or they maybe have in their head they might want to write. I think you have to do it. You have to write it for yourself first and see what you've got. And I think that's the most important thing. And for me, it was, again, goes back to brain health, really, because it was an incredibly powerful processing tool as well. We know that writing, journaling, obviously, people talk about that now. All those kind of routines and habits are really good for helping our brain. But for me, sort of writing in that kind of long form really helped me kind of come to terms with the different things that had happened. So, yeah, I decided to just write it all down. That's where I started. Lots of different things that I'd experienced as a new mum, obviously, with my health and some things throughout my career that had really kind of stuck with me. Good and not so good. And I just wrote it all down, poured out in notebooks on my computer and all those different things, and started that before COVID And then obviously Covid happened, didn't really have time to think about anything because we were also all over the place, weren't we, back then? But again, I had time to read a bit more. So I was really reading a lot of memoirs. And then I saw a course that was for writing a memoir through Curtis Brown. They're a literary agent, but they also do a lot of creative courses, so I had to apply to get a place on it. So again, that kind of put me off because I thought, well, probably not going to get a place, but, hey, I'm not really doing anything else at the moment, and let's just see what happens. But I did get a place, and I would confidently say that if I was terrified about the accelerate her process, I was like three times more terrified about taking up my place on this course. And again, because it was remote, that actually enabled me to do it because I think if it had been in person, I would have found reasons. Particularly with a child, you've got lots of reasons to not do things. So, yeah, did the course and met some incredible people through it. And again, the support from those people just was the thing that made the difference. That kind of motivated me to keep going and start approaching agents, and that's what I did. So I started sending out my work and pitching the synopsis and all those things that you read about that you have to do. And again, I was just really lucky that I had an agent really early on show interest and said that she wanted to sign me to be one of her clients.

Caroline: Amazing

Clara: Again, I think it was just a really special moment and really kind of just validated that, actually, I want to keep going with this and write this story and keep telling this story and see where we end up.

Caroline: That's so amazing. I think it's very powerful when you go through an experience as significant as yours, being able to use that in a positive way and share it with others, it's just so magical. So, yeah. Well done, you, for being so brave.

Clara: Well, yeah, absolutely. I think we're all going through experiences all of the time, and sharing those experiences, again, does give you support. It kind of just gives you all sorts of different things. And I think, yeah, as I say, from that sort of writing group, again, it was back to that thing of, I had this massive fear about it, but then everyone was a bit scared. And again, people in the group were, most of them were actually writers in different forms. So, like, seeing people who were fully professional but still having a bit of nerves and fear, back to what we said about that sort of funny first time…

Caroline: Yeah, it’s normal.

Clara: And even the sort of entrepreneurial journey, it's amazing how many people you speak to who you would see as being, oh, wow, they're much further on than me and they've done loads more than me and things, but everyone's still like, oh, my God, what am I doing, at different points. And, yeah, I think whether it's writing entrepreneurial work, even day to day jobs, like taking on a new challenge, it's difficult when it's something different, but you just got to give it a go, don't you, and see what happens.

Caroline: It's just amazing. Yeah. Magical things are going to happen from it. I just know. I can feel it.

Clara: We'll see. But thank you. Yeah, it's been a great experience, and I guess I've learned more from doing it and even doing my sort of writing and thinking about other things I might want to write about. Again, it's like everything. It's a skill you learn as you go, and that's been a really powerful thing as well. You sort of see where you could improve, and that's what's great.

Caroline: Yeah. In terms of communication style and stuff, I will definitely be linking all of your socials and things, because one thing that I really love is all the tips that you share online, and maybe that in itself could become a book. You could get all your LinkedIn posts and turn them into a book. So, yeah, definitely, if you're listening, following Clara is very helpful. You've always got words of wisdom, and I think what I particularly love is you're really down to earth. It's always so relatable and it never feels like… it's all attainable. It's all practical things that people can implement. And obviously, because you have that experience with your own long term health condition, people will trust you because you are an expert, both in a professional sense and a personal sense. Yeah. Gosh, what an amazing story. Just remind me. So you're recording the audio for the audio version just now. The book itself is out in the spring did you say?

Clara: So out, I’m out as an audiobook in the spring? And we still don't have a print date as yet, but out on audio in the spring, narrated by myself. So it's been I suppose an experience as well. Just listening to yourself talk for such a long period of time.

Caroline: It’s hard isn’t it?

Clara: Not be interrupted by, you're so used to being interrupted by kids or something else. So, yeah, that was it. But again, another amazing experience. And I worked with a sound engineer that was just incredibly supportive and professional and had obviously done, been in that field for so long that it was a really positive experience. So, yeah, audiobook coming first. And yeah, it should be springtime. So yes, I'll keep you posted.

Caroline: Amazing. Oh, so wonderful. Yeah. And hopefully there'll be more books in the future. When I was thinking about our conversation, I was going to ask you, do you know of the Psychology Mum? Have you heard of the Psychology Mum? She has Brian the Brain, and she does some beautiful books that are around mental health, but there's lots of practical tips and stuff. And I wonder if there's like a we collab opportunity there because, yeah, you could be like a really powerful duo.

Clara: Well, that's definitely something I should look into, but I think illustrations are so powerful, aren't they? I think that is a really amazing way of, when you get it right, of being able to communicate some really important points and it's really accessible and yes, good for Instagram and all that stuff. But actually, it's just nice to be able to look at it even in a book form as well, so yeah, absolutely. I think she's done great work, and I think Liz and Molly, the illustrators that work with Adam Grant's work with as well, I think their book is Big Feelings. Should get that right. But, yeah, they've gotten something similar where, again, it's more very simple, really simple drawings, but it's just really..

Caroline: Powerful. Yeah, gets the message across.

Clara: Yeah, no, it's good.

Caroline: We'll look that up and we can put a link in, because I haven't seen that one, and I'd love to see that yet.

Clara: In fact, I've got it here, I think. Yeah. Oh it is big feelings? I got it right, that one.

Caroline: Oh, yeah. We'll put a link to that one. And I'll put a link to the Psychology Mum ones as well, because they're really nice.

Clara: Yeah, they are really good.

Caroline: Yeah. And you can kind of dip in and out of them, which is great.

Clara: Yes, I think that's good. And again, for kids, again, obviously those are more adult books, but I think, again, for kids, we're talking more and more about mental health, and that's great. And brain health is a sort of key element of that. But I think illustrations as well as a really useful way of trying to communicate that sort of information.

Caroline: Yeah. Oh, cool. Thank you. I'm really excited for you. I just can't wait to listen to it when it's ready. So I think we're kind of getting closer to the end of the conversation. And with all of my guests, I love to ask them about how they create their kind spaces. So what are the things that you really lean into or go to when you're feeling a bit out of balance?

Clara: I think, yes, that's something I've been thinking about, and probably, for me at the moment, I think probably different at different times, at different stages of my life. But I would say right now, my kind space is linked to being able to write. So I feel if I'm struggling or I've had a lot going on, as you know, having your own business and founding something brand new is full of challenges that you don't even know exist until they appear in your inbox. And when I'm in a place where I'm really feeling like struggling with different things, being able to write with my laptop or a notebook is where I would create my kind space. And finding somewhere where I can do that quietly, even if it's at home, on my own, with the door closed, or I've got a couple of particular coffee shops that I'll go to at certain times. I know are quieter. But once I'm there with my laptop and my earphones on, then after an hour or so, I'm ready to face the world again.

Caroline: Yeah, that's really good, isn't it? I've been doing more journaling this year, so that was kind of my thing, at the start of the year, I'm going to be journaling every day, and I do think it's been helping as well. And you wouldn't think something as simple as that can make such a difference. But some of it for me is like, I get up and I do it first thing in the morning, because I know it's my time as well. Everyone else is either still in bed or sometimes my son is up. But, yeah, it's like quiet time just for you.

Clara: Yeah, absolutely. And again, that's a really important, again, a great creative tool, great sort of mind health tool to be journaling. We know that's important and works really well for brain health. Again, going back to your sort of question around writing, there's a sort of whole sort of process, what they call morning pages, which is exactly that. And yes, it could be journaling around particular things that are going on, but actually, if you're wanting to be writing or being creative in any way, having that time to just sort of write out anything, it could be story ideas, or it could be to do lists, it doesn't matter what it is, but actually, the physical process of writing consistently for 20 minutes, half an hour in the morning, if you can do that, is really a really good way to kind of get into that mindset of doing more creatively, if that's something you're interested in.

Caroline: Yeah. Awesome. Before we wrap up, is there any other exciting things that we've maybe not covered? Like, we talked about the book, which is the big thing, but anything else bubbling in the background that you want to share?

Clara: Bubbling in the background, probably the only thing. Well, it's exciting. It's just a little bubble at the minute, teeny bubbles. So at the moment, we've got three adult products, Oomph, Pause and Fogo. And those are products. Fogo is for sort of perimenopausal symptoms, brain fog, and feeling for more energy. Oomph is around energy, focus and concentration, and Pause is about unwinding and improving sleep quality. But kids is at the heart of brain health for me. So we are looking at a children's product, which we're collaborating with a Scottish University with to help work on developing that in 2024. So, as I say, it's at the very, very early stages, but that's something to watch out for and that's something we'll be talking about more, hopefully, as I've got more to talk about.

Caroline: Nice. I remember we spoke about that before because, is it the Rowett Institute in Aberdeen that you said? Yeah. So that's close to where I am. Yeah.

Clara: Great.

Caroline: They have such an amazing reputation as well.

Clara: Yeah. Again, what we've done, the products we have already, we know they're really great in terms of benefits and how people feel when they're taking them. But I think it'd be really exciting to work in a different way to create something really unique for children's nutritional benefit and ultimately their brain health. So, yeah, it feels quite, again, another new thing that feels quite scary, but we're looking forward to it.

Caroline: Yeah, well, if anyone can do it, it's you.

Clara: Well, I'll let you know. Yes, we'll keep you posted.

Caroline: Awesome. Thank you so much. The other thing I do need to check as well is how people can get in touch with you. So do you have a favourite place that you live online?

Clara: LinkedIn is where I am mostly. So, yeah, I'm on LinkedIn and I think it's at Dr. Clara. I need to check. So, yeah, I'll come back on that one.

Caroline: We'll pop it in the show notes, yeah.

Clara: LinkedIn, but I'm also on Twitter. And again, if it's also on Twitter and a little bit Instagram, but I'd say LinkedIn or Twitter, X, whatever you want to call it.

Caroline: Yeah, I still call it Twitter as well, very confusing.

Clara: Yes.

Caroline: We'll pop some links as well, because I'm sure people want to get in touch and ask you some questions, find out about when your book is going to come out and it's hardback or paperback version. Yeah, awesome. Thanks so much!

Clara: Great. Yip, Well whether it’s brains or books or supplements or anything, then yes. Writing, then yes. Any questions, I'm always happy to try and answer them.

Caroline: Oh, I've really enjoyed this catch up and thank you for sharing all your insights into how we can keep our brains a bit healthier and improve our sleep. I think that's really going to help people and also sharing about your journey with your own health condition as well, because I know that talking about these sorts of things, it can be challenging in itself. So thank you so much for being an amazing guest.

Clara: Well, thank you for having me. Thank you.

Caroline: I think there’s nothing more powerful than when someone takes a life experience and uses that to help others. Dr Clara is one of the most courageous, intelligent and kind people I’ve ever had the honour of meeting. I’m very excited for the book launch and I hope you’ll all get behind her to help broaden the reach of her amazing work helping others through difficult diagnoses and educating us about the importance of brain health.

As the podcast series continues, I encourage you to get in touch and share your stories and tips, I’d love to hear from you! Pop me an email at caroline@tltechsmart.com or message on social media @createyourkindspace