The Stress-Inflammation Cycle: Breaking BAD with Dr. Monika Gostic

Welcome to another episode of the ’Create Your Kindspace’ podcast, with me your host Caroline Laurenson. Create Your Kindspace is all about wellbeing and the different ways in which we care for ourselves and those around us.

"Sometimes I get so fed-up trying to figure out what to eat and after I’ve looked after everyone else, I just don’t have the physical or mental energy to meet my own needs." If you’ve ever said this, I have the perfect guest for you. Dr Monica Gostic is a dear friend of mine. Not only is she an incredible scientist and teacher, she’s also an award-winning businesswoman and champion powerlifter. So keep listening to find out more about how stress impacts our physical wellbeing and how a lifestyle medicine approach can help reduce inflammation. So if you’re ready let’s dive in to find out more about Monica’s unique approach to wellness, which starts with encouraging us to be a little bit more BAD.

Timestamps:

00:02:05             Monica’s Journey to Becoming a Nutrition Coach

00:07:03             The "BAD" Movement – Balanced, Authentic, Deserving

00:12:19             Lifestyle Medicine and the Impact of Stress

00:14:31             Nature and Movement as Stress Antidotes

00:19:50             Managing Chronic Health Conditions

00:23:33             Your Gut Microbiome

00:27:56             The Mental Overwhelm of Managing Your Diet

00:29:35             How to Make Little Adjustments to What You Eat

00:35:21             Progress Over Perfection – Building Healthy Habits is Like Training Muscle

00:38:15             One Size Doesn’t Fit All and the Danger of Weight Loss Influencers

00:42:45             The Benefits of Working with a Coach

00:48:33             Being a Role Model for the University Students

00:49:51             How Monika Got Into Powerlifting

00:56:23             Strength Training for Women

00:59:36             Variety is the Key to Monika’s Kindspace

01:03:12             Monika’s Programmes and Research (and How to Get in Touch)

Links:

Website: https://monikagostic.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DrMonikaGostic/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/healthnfitness_coach/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drmonikagostic/

Bored of Lunch: https://boredoflunch.com/

21-Day Research Programme: https://monikagostic.com/programmes/

Transcript:

Caroline: Welcome to the show, Monika, and thank you so much for hosting me in this space. Now I said this actually in my last episode when I went to go see Sara at her studio. This space is so beautiful, Monika, with all your plants and your cosy sofa. I just feel I'm a bit jealous actually, because my home office, is nowhere near as nice as this. So thank you so much. Yeah, so we're gonna have an amazing chat. The reason I really wanted to have you on the show is because you literally are the go-to person when it comes to all things nutrition and how we look after our health and how we fuel ourselves so that we feel good. I am very excited about all the things we're going to delve into. But before I guess we do that, everyone needs to find out more about you and your background. So maybe you could kick off by telling us a bit more about how did you become a nutrition specialist and your work here at the university and you live in Aberdeen. So that whole backstory, if you can maybe let us know.

Monika: Oh, wow. Yeah. Well, thank you first and foremost for having me and I'm really excited that you managed to come into my cosy space here in the office. I always say I spend most of my time at work, I might as well make it comfy for myself, right? My story is so up and down and left and right and centre and I actually love it because it just gets to show people that you're not destined to do one thing for the rest of your life. And it's absolutely okay to change your mind and change your directive and you're never too old to start something new and something different. And that's kind of like the rules that I live by. So if we rewind really, really long time ago, when I was just a little girl, I come from a small country called Slovenia, which is like a wee pocket in central Europe next to Austria and Italy and Croatia. And I was overweight my entire life and that was kind of what informed my interests later on in my life because I was the typical person who's trying to get healthier, trying to lose weight, but having really short-term success.

So I was a professional yoyo dieter. I'm sure a lot of people can resonate with that. And I was, I am very good with, you know, starting a project, sticking to it, being really good at progress. But this wasn't just a project. This was my body. It was something that I can't fully 100 percent control. So I would start to diet I would do well for a few weeks and then it would crash and burn and I would regain, and my mental health would be really, really low and I ended up committing what I called carbocide.

Caroline: Carbocide!

Monika: So pretty much eating the entire bowl of pasta and all the bread and everything because my body was just needing energy right.

Caroline: Yeah, yeah.

Monika: So I went through quite a lot of cycles like this and damaged my body in the process, but also damaged my mind, my self-esteem, the perception of my own body and also the idea of my self-worth, which was probably the worst of everything. But if we fast forward through, you know, then 15, 20 years almost. I've completed an undergraduate degree in microbiology back home. I then went to Germany to do an exchange programme but ended up transferring as a regular student at Technical University Munich where I did master's in, in biology with like emphasis of biotechnology and molecular biology. I worked at one of the research centres in Munich on the topic of development of the brain, which was really cool. Yeah. It was like genetics of brain development and I was looking into how this is all happening and it was fantastic. And that's kind of like also the time when I started understanding that it's not just calories in, calories out when it comes to losing weight and being healthy, but it does go beyond that. And all these biochemical processes inside of us and genetics and epigenetics and everything that I've learned through my scientific career, I've then started implementing into my health and wellbeing, let's say path at that time because it wasn't a business yet.

Caroline: Yeah

Monika: And then the journey took me to Scotland which I came to do the PhD in genetics at St Andrews University and this was really great. But that was kind of when everything started falling together into pieces and I started helping other people with their health journey. And in the beginning it was just like, oh, let me just help you lose weight, blah blah, blah, standard kind of stuff.

Caroline: Yeah, like so people that you knew.

Monika: Then or friends, family, they would just come to me and want to basically look as good as I did because I did lose pretty much 55 pounds away or 25 kilos. So they were like, how did you do it? How did you do it? And you know, people started listening to me. I started sharing some fun recipes that I've got and slowly but surely, I built a community.

Caroline: Yeah.

Monika: And we were having so much fun. We were exercising together, we were getting together for walks, we did like online baking sessions together. It's like, oh, I can make a cake that you can have for breakfast. Who doesn't want that? So that's all the kind of things that we started doing. And because it is so different from what people in health and wellness space are used to, it's where I started naming my movement Breaking Bad.

Caroline: Yes. Tell us about bad? Your BAD acronym, because I love it.

Monika: Oh, I think we all love it. It's just because we're such rebels. Right. First and foremost, I'm a scientist that is kind of going slightly against the system. Unfortunately, the system is quite rigid in certain aspects and medical system as we know it and some other processes. And whenever you're trying to get health help with your health is really, really tough. So I started going against that and I started addressing that and being loud in that space. So Breaking Bad is a part of that, obviously referencing that show Breaking Bad. But the other part was also Bad Mom's film that I watched. And it was just so. I just so resonated with that because it was like, why is everything on us women, all the responsibility, all the pressure, all the societal norms, and everything that a woman is supposed to be, supposed to do, in the end of the day, it's the women who are getting sicker and sicker because we are not taking care of ourselves.

Caroline: Yeah, we neglect ourselves. We're at the bottom of the pile.

Monika: That is it. That's just it. Like, everything has priority. And then I saw that film Bad Moms, and I was like, oh, my God, this is brilliant. So it kind of married Breaking Bad show and the Bad Moms film into BAD movement. And Bad stands for Balanced, Authentic and Deserving.

Caroline: Yeah.

Monika: You know, so instead of having that same thread throughout history where we are destroying our health for the sake of getting more money, having more, I don't know, chores at home done, serving others instead of self, instead of doing all of that, let's flip the coin and let's prioritise ourselves. Let's be BAD, and let's really start feeling amazing in our body. So to the point that we are radiating that energy and happiness and it just overflows to our children, to our spouses, and everything else that we're doing.

Caroline: Yeah. Do you know what I love most? That last word, that deserving word? Because, yeah, we absolutely do deserve to prioritise ourselves and have a life which isn't just about serving other people. And, I mean, this is coming from me, who I enjoy helping others. It is one of the things that really lights me up. But I think sometimes we can do it to the detriment of ourselves, and sometimes it's so hard to say no or to feel like… Yeah, feel like you're not worthy and like somehow that's how… I'm trying to think what it is. It's when you feel like the only way people will love you is, like, do things for other people. And that's not true, because you're deserving of love no matter, you know, what size or shape you are or. Yes, it's really deep. I just love that last word.

Monika: Absolutely. Oh, it is. And I think it goes even deeper ever since I started going to therapy for myself and, you know, unpacking all the traumas from the childhood and how I was feeling and all these consequences that actually have resulted in chronic illness in my body, because mind and body are connected. And as much as there's some people who are strictly physical as personal trainers or medical doctors, there's also a lot of practitioners that are strictly mental. So, for example, mindfulness and meditation. But I want to marry these two and I want to show people that without one, we don't have the other. So we need to really nourish physical and mental wellbeing together simultaneously. Otherwise, you know, we're gonna have deficiencies, just like we have nutritional deficiencies. If we don't manage our stress, we're gonna have deficiencies there, because mental stress translates into physical stress. But a lot of people neglect that because you don't see it, right? It's like if you're overweight, you see that you're overweight, you can feel that your clothes don't fit, you're feeling a bit uncomfortable when you're sitting down and things like that. You see that, this is why it is usually easy to address it, because they're like, oh, I just want to lose weight. But what is in the background of that? Why did you actually gain weight? Did you gain it because you can't resist, I don't know, biscuits with your tea? Or did you gain it because suddenly you're transitioning in the time of your life where your hormones are imbalanced, and things are changing and you're under chronic stress and you don't sleep enough? Because those are completely different approaches to that weight management then.

Caroline: Yeah, you want to get to the root of. Of what the issue is.

Monika: Yeah. And that's pretty much what is the core of lifestyle medicine. And this is what I practise, so it does go beyond nutrition, it does go beyond movement. I do lead with nutrition first. So that's kind of where I start and say, if we have nutrition sorted, then everything else will fall into place easier. So. but lifestyle medicine goes beyond that. It's the six step approach to overall human wellbeing and it is nutrition, movement, sleep quality, stress reduction, interpersonal relationships on minimising harmful substances.

Caroline: Okay, yeah, you've raised some really important points there. Like the whole thing about stress and, and how that manifests and how I think sometimes we can, it can build without us realising. I think that's the really almost like dangerous thing about stress is that, you know, we'll, we'll take on more and more and more and actually when it does manifest, it's not like it's just, you know, a small issue. It's like your body literally shuts down because it's like, nope, you have pushed yourself way too hard this time.

Monika: So you sound like you've been, you've been through a burnout.

Caroline: Stress is a hard one. Yeah. I think also like my, my mum, so she had bowel cancer and I 100% know that that was because of stress. Like I, I, I think, the, the issues that we had like in the family and like everything that happened like leading up to her getting sick, like it 100% was stress. Like she ended up, even before the cancer manifested, she had alopecia. So she, the stress made her lose her hair, she lost her eyelashes. And I remember when, so when she did go for chemo and stuff, she was laughing because she was like, I’ve already lost my hair, so it's fine. And she kicked cancer's butt for a very long time. And I think a lot of what helped her and why I absolutely love this space so much that we're in just now is, it was nature and plants that was like her medicine. So when she got sick she just threw herself into gardening. Like the whole house was full of plants, the garden was like full of plants. And like even like the week before she passed away, I remember the, the lady from the hospice would come and see us every day and, and I remember her saying like, how is she still up and about and doing stuff? You know, when she was so frail and she was so weak. But every day she was like, to me, I need to be in the garden. And so I would help her out and then we would be like putting plants and like, yeah, just enjoying that space together.

Monika: So that is true.

Caroline: Stress is not. Yeah, not a good.

Monika: But it's a beautiful example what you just shared of, you know, movement as a medicine. But that it doesn't have to be excessive, which is, I feel like one of the biggest misconceptions in this field in general is you have to go to the gym, you have to hire a personal trainer, you have to go all out, you have to take time away from what you're doing in order to exercise. But there are so many ways that you can move your body and promote that wellbeing. And gardening is beautiful. It doesn't just make you move your body, it's also this contact with soil and plants that has been researched and shown that it's releasing happy hormones when you're doing that. The colour green is calming us down. So when we see colour green we're actually relaxing as well. And yeah, just general topic of stress. What a lot of people don't understand is for example IBS, irritable bowel syndrome. The biggest cause of IBS is chronic stress.

Caroline: Yes, yes.

Monika: So it's not even nutrition. So you get inflamed digestive system because you're under constant stress. And these are the topics that I'm so passionate about. They're not really known in medical field as much so they can diagnose IBS but the treatment is still pretty complicated, isn't it? So they're going to put you on anti-inflammatories and put you onto a FODMAP diet or just tell you. Oh, which is the one that really upsets me. They will tell you to avoid all fibre, start eating white bread, white rice, white pasta.

Caroline: Is that right?

Monika: And yes, because they think that that's what's causing the irritation of the bowels.

Caroline: But I thought fibre was like essential for your digestive stuff.

Monika: That's why it upsets me so much. So I recently had medical students do like a wee research project and I was their supervisor for that and they do this every single year. So this is were second year medical students and the topic that I've given them this time was what’s stress got to do with it. So they had to research the manifestation of mental stress in physical body and they decided to focus on three different conditions. They focused on diabetes, IBS and cardiovascular disease.

Caroline: Oh yeah, yeah.

Monika: So they really looked into the research behind that and they've shown that the stress, mental stress can kind of like show as an imbalance in our body of oxidative stress, which is molecules, chemicals inside of our body, they're being produced as a result of stress and our immune system. So our immune system can't really work properly if we're too stressed because we're supposed to be in balance. So here is the B word again, balance. But we get this chronic physical stress, because that imbalance is tilted right. And as a result of this, we develop, for example, issues with our insulin. So the cells, that secrete insulin, they get damaged, so we get insulin resistance and, and we have issues with insulin. And this is how we can develop diabetes, chronic stress. IBS, I just mentioned again, it's this constant irritation of the bowels. So you know yourself if you're nervous. We have two type of people, some people who stress eat and then the other type of people that when they're under stress they just won't eat ever.

Caroline: Yeah, just feel sick, yeah.

Monika: And then same with the cardiovascular disease, they've shown that there's damage to actual arteries and everything that's happening inside of our body. And how is all this communicating? So it goes a lot deeper than just, oh, I'm stressed, I'll just sleep it off. It actually manifests inside of our body and it can lead to serious disease. So yes, the D part, you need it, you are deserving and you definitely need to start looking into how to balance your life in order to destress.

Caroline: Definitely, yes. I think the, the whole thing of how interlinked what we eat and how physically like, well we are is just incredible, isn't it, that that whole connection. And I know you've got a real depth of experience when it comes to chronic illnesses and like the ways in which we can adjust our diets to kind of help manage symptoms or is manage symptoms the right way to describe it or just to, I guess to help us to feel as healthy as possible and yeah, maybe have more good days than bad days.

Monika: I would definitely say the managing the symptoms is a good word because it's hard. We can't really say that we're curing disease because once you have certain conditions, such as diabetes is very, very difficult to reverse it. You can put them into kind of like a stagnant place where they don't progress. But for example, fibromyalgia or endometriosis or symptoms, similar conditions, once they are fully manifested, they're there, but that doesn't mean that they will progress. So you actually have massive power in your hands over how will this disease manifest. My personal example is endometriosis. Whereas I've had it probably my entire life because I remember the periods I had as a, as a girl. I got my period extremely early again, now I know that's tied to my lifestyle and the diet that I was under because I was under a very meat heavy diet, which is estrogenic. And they said actually the meat heavy diets are associated with early onset of periods in girls, but also they are associated with higher risk of developing breast cancer later on in life. And my auntie had it. So I was like looking at my own example in my family, I'm like, oh, wow, I definitely need to do something, I need to change something, because I'll be next if I don't change the way that I eat and the way that I live.

But diet goes so far beyond, it's just fuel. It really does. And it's such a touchy subject because so many of us, we have these cultural ideas of food. And if you come from a culture like myself, from like south of Europe or Latin America, is where people get together in large quantities, families, friends, and it's all around food. And it's just food to… until you pass out. Pretty much. That was me growing up. I mean, I remember any family function, we would roast an entire piglet on a stick.

Caroline: Yeah, on a stick.

Monika: Yeah. And then the women would make all the salads and all that. The men would be gathering around the piglet and it was just… wow amount of food and not necessarily the healthiest. And just looking at manifestation in chronic conditions, you know, it isn't just food, but food is a massive factor. So where I tend to lead my clients is always towards let's reduce the chronic inflammation that is happening in your body. And that's kind of like a buzzword that you'll see if you follow me on any social media. You'll see me use inflammation, inflammation, inflammation all the time. And people are like, well, but what does food got to do with inflammation?

Well, this is where I love to talk about your gut microbiome and what you eat and what's happening inside. So how I usually explain it is that if you imagine inside of your gut, it's kind of like a universe, right? You've got trillions of trillions little microorganisms that are invisible to the eyes. Bacteria, viruses, fungi, and all their genes and all the other stuff that they do. So if I oversimplify, I always say we've got the goodies and we've got the baddies. And then if you're a Star Wars fan, you can imagine that they're like there with their lightsabres and the goodies in the baddies have their like, battleships and lightsabres and they're fighting a war inside. And the ones that you feed are the ones that are going to be winning. So say your diet is predominantly meat heavy, not much veg, a lot of potatoes, ultra processed foods like store bought breads and ready-made protein shakes and meals and pizzas and all that kind of stuff, then you'll be feeding the baddies a lot more. Right? But if you're eating more like whole foods, the ones that weren't really changed by human, the ones that are eaten in the way that they come from the mother nature, and if you have plenty of beans and pulses and plant based, lots of different colours and lean meats and fish, then you're going to be feeding the goodies more.

So the ones that you feed the most, the ones, these ones are winning inside of your gut. Now we tend to have also other influences. Stress makes us change the balance inside of our gut universe towards the baddies. So there's more baddies. Same if you're not drinking enough water, same if you're not sleeping enough or one day you get sick, you get an antibiotic and it just kills everything.

Caroline: Aw, it wipes everything out, yeah.

Monika: So all the good work that you've been doing and putting in is just wiped. But then unfortunately the baddies tend to regrow a lot faster and a lot easier than the goodies do. So they tend to kind of create, create this monopoly over your gut health and all of that, all that lightsabres and shooting with battleships and everything that's happening inside of your gut that is causing inflammation inside of your gut universe. And this inflammation is slowly but steadily eroding away your protective layers in the gut. So your mucus. And those protective layers are where your immune system is. So that's where your cells are protecting you from infections, protecting you from the things that would go, you know, through you.

Caroline: Yeah, yeah.

Monika: They will help you to get through you instead of into your bloodstream. But if you have holes in those protective layers, then all of those bacteria and all those nasties can enter your bloodstream and that can lead to then sepsis and similar conditions. So I hope that I explained it in a manageable way, but I could talk about it for days. It's really fascinating field and that's pretty much what I'm trying to teach my clients is right, let's simplify your daily routine so that we establish dominance of goodies over your baddies.

Caroline: Yeah, it's a really tricky one because on the face of it, I think most of us know that, you know, there's certain foods that are better for us than others. But then the reality of making good choices, you know, when we're busy, you know, we're juggling work, we're juggling the kids, we're juggling all these things and it then comes back to that thing of like we're not prioritising ourselves or we're not giving ourselves a fighting chance to make the sensible choice because in our hearts we know like we shouldn't be scoffing down a, you know, a premade sandwich or you know, putting something in the microwave or you know, but the reality is that sometimes you don't have time.

Monika: Yeah.

Caroline: To yeah. Make the healthy choices.

Monika: And it's not just time is your mental space as well. And that's a big one for me as a mum, as a, you know, person with a full-time job. I run a business, I'm an athlete, I wear so many hats, I'm really, really busy and I see it with myself. It's the mental space to make these decisions and to do the meal planning and the meal prepping and this and that. And it's just so overwhelming that you, in the end of the day you just don't have the fuel anymore, unless you know what to do, and you know the tricks that I've got and that is what's actually making things a lot easier for people. So my programmes have won so many awards and that is simply because I'm not adding to my clients stress. So most of the time when you're working with a personal trainer or a nutritionist or even dietitian, it's going to look like this. You're going to get your macros. So they're going to calculate based on your weight and your height and your activity level how many calories a day you should be eating. And then they're going to divide this into proteins, fats and carbohydrates. And then they're going to let you go say here's an app, keep logging in your food. And then they don't really care what you eat as long as you hit your calories and your macros. That's the personal training type of thing, the nutrition basics. Nutritionists, dietitians, they're going to look at you, they're going to check your blood sometimes and they're going to design a meal plan for you which is a step further, is really, really good. And I highly recommend that you know, if you're interested in that, go and do this. But where I differ from all of these things is that I will never give you a meal plan. And people usually go like but, but, but, but why? And I have a simple explanation here. I'm a lecturer at the university, right. And I work with students, I work with undergraduate students, I work with postgraduate students. So when I give them a lecture in a PowerPoint form, 2/3 of them are sleeping. Right. They're not listening, are they? They're not engaging. They're just there because they have to be there to scan their attendance code. And they're probably maybe on their computers doing something else. They're just not present. So I feel like I'm just talking into the ether when I'm trying to speak to them and I've identified that. So I started changing the way that I teach into more engaging techniques.

Caroline: Yeah.

Monika: And I've transferred that knowledge and that understanding into my coaching. So instead of me giving you a meal plan that's going to make you go food shopping, was going to make you start eating certain meals that you are just not ready to start eating. It's going to start introducing anxiety into your day because you're going to feel overwhelmed over a food or a meal that you really don't know how to make or you've never tasted and you don't know how you’re like it.

Caroline: Yeah, different ingredients.

Monika: Yeah, all the kind of things. Instead of doing this, what I do is I take you as you are right now, a snapshot in time. Right now. And then you write down to me how you normally eat. And it's a completely judgement free zone. You know, if you got pizzas and sandwiches and coffees with sugar, I don't care, it's fine. That is how you are now. And then when you write me down how you are now, I then go day by day by day and I give you feedback. So you say to me, this was my breakfast, this was my lunch, this was my dinner, these were all my snacks. And I go, okay, let's see, what do you have in your cupboards that we can add to your breakfast so that we can make it balanced? So we start looking into that and you're like, oh, okay, I can do that. So we add that one thing, the next day.

Caroline: So just little tweaks… to what they're already doing.

Monika: That's it.

Caroline: Okay.

Monika: So one of the biggest feedbacks that I got from one of the mums that started working with me in the beginning, before she signed up, she was like, what I will not do and what I cannot do is cook separate meals from my kids.

Caroline: Oh, God, no.

Monika: Yeah, because a lot of people do that.

Caroline: I don't know how they have the time.

Monika: I don't know either. My mother was one of those. She actually was making three different meals because my brother was fussy. She was on a diet and then the rest of us ate normal in, in quotation marks food. I don't want that for my clients. So if you are doing mac and cheese for your kids, that's absolutely fine, do mac and cheese. But we're gonna look at your portion and we're gonna say, right, you're gonna have less of the mac and cheese and we're gonna figure out what can we do on the side of that to make this meal nutritionally complete for your needs. So what can we do to increase the protein, to increase the fibre, to balance the saturated fats, maybe add unsaturated fats in there and we have this discussion every single day and it takes you about 10 minutes per day and then you're just like, oh, okay, well, that's easy.

Caroline: Yeah.

Monika: So now I know what I do next time when I've got mac and cheese. And slowly but surely through these short 21-day programmes, you can do as many as you want. Ladies, start understanding that it's not kind of like strict all or nothing prohibition. I'm not allowed bread, blah, blah, blah type of things. But it's really changing where you are now, tiny step by tiny step, your habits until I get you out to the point that when you start writing me your food diaries, I have zero comments. And when you're at that stage, I then tell you, right, I think we're done here now go and apply what you've learned. And, you know, if you need me again in about six months or a year or whatever, you're always welcome to come back.

Caroline: Yeah. And it's like, then you've built up that muscle of being able to look at what you're eating and, yeah, like, be creative and think, well, what could I add to this that would give me a bit more maybe variety and the types of vegetables. And then I can imagine that over time you'd start to become maybe a little bit more adventurous as well. And the things that you're cooking. I'm not a massive cook. I kind of do it a little bit reluctantly. However, one of my friends recommended the Bored of Lunch series of cookery books and they're brilliant, actually. They're so engaging that even my family are like, oh, this is a nice recipe book, maybe I'll cook something too. And I guess it does that thing of slowly introducing new ingredients that you might not have used before, but in a really simple way that you don't feel overwhelmed. Like, I hate those recipes where it's like you read the list and you're just like, oh, my goodness. I don't even know what half of these things are. But his books are just so… they're so good at just helping to, yeah, build your muscle when it comes to your confidence… of what you can achieve in the kitchen.

Monika: Absolutely. I love that.

Caroline: So, yeah. The Bored of Lunch books. Yeah. I’ll maybe pop a link in the show notes to them because they're really useful. He does really good little videos on TikTok as well.

Monika: Oh, nice. But that's just it. I feel like a lot of times people are scared to be creative and adventurous in the kitchen because it is, I suppose, like, a muscle that you have to train. So.

Caroline: Yeah.

Monika: You're not just going into the gym and then you're an athlete on Olympic Games. Like, it just doesn't work that way. You need to keep training yourself, but allow yourself to make these mistakes, even with cooking. Okay. Please don't burn the house down, but do it in a safe manner. But it is okay if things don't turn out the way that you like them. And I feel this is something that I'm trying to teach my daughter as well, is what? Progress over perfection. So as long as you're doing in a safe manner, I'm there, I'm supervising. You know, try and create something that you think you'll like, and if you won't like it, that's fine. We'll figure something else. Yeah. But it's just building that confidence instead of her looking at me or instead of her waiting for her meal to be done, to appear poof. Like magic in front of her on the table. I've been including her into the process ever since she was a baby, so she would be there next to me. And now she's the one who, like, stirs the sauce or does this or does that just a, like, tiny little bit, so she understands the whole process of what, how it is actually to cook food. And this is where we've got all these, let's say, deficiencies in our system is that a lot of families, unfortunately, either don't have the time to cook or they don't have knowledge to cook, so they don't have that skill to pass on to their children. And then we're getting generations of generations of people who don't know how to cook. Okay, liking that's a different thing. You know, if you don't like to, I don't judge you, that's absolutely fine. But knowing that's a skill and you know, it is really, really important.

Caroline: Yeah, it just opens up so much, many more choices for you as well, doesn't it? You know, in terms of like what's going to suit you best for your lifestyle, what's going to suit you best if you do have, you know, something like a long-term health condition. And like we were discussing, like being able to make something that is adaptable for different people in your family as well. Like your example of the macaroni cheese is brilliant, isn't it? So, yeah. But yeah, it, it's… I certainly do not take for granted the fact that, you know, I have a nice kitchen and I've got all the, you know, the, the cooking tools and implements and I learned to cook from my mum when I was younger. Yeah. That, that is a really privileged place to be because a lot of people don't have access to all those things.

Monika: Yeah, I fully agree. We're all so different. And then when you're trying to work with people, the biggest mistakes that I see is those people handing out blueprint. This is how you get to your health. Well, it's not because what works for, I don't know, a lady across the road will not work for me.

Caroline: Yeah.

Monika: And I feel like all these influencers and fat diets that are out there again is the same thing as my life story. It's, it will work for a few weeks until you crash and burn and commit a carbocide.

Caroline: Yeah, it's not, it's not sustainable.

Monika: It's, it's really not. And what I'm trying to kind of fight against is this mentality of quick pill like fixes or I call it microwave society where we want immediate solution. I see a lot of, a lot of fuss around GLP at the moment and weight loss.

Caroline: Did you say GLP?

Monika: GLP, yeah. So the weight loss drugs…

Caroline: Oh, I see.

Monika: And the injections…

Caroline: I have seen a few of them on my TikTok and I, I just skipped past it because I'm like, why? Yeah. It's a difficult one for me to I guess identify with because I've never been a yo-yo dieter. But I just think, you know, fundamentally, like, there's no shortcuts in life. And yeah, if, if you're looking to get healthier, that, that is the, it's the longer road.

Monika: Yes.

Caroline: But ultimately will be the one that is more likely to be successful, like.

Monika: Absolutely. I mean, don't get me wrong, these weight loss drugs, they have a place in medical system, but they should be administered under medical supervision. I have a very close friend who ended up in the hospital with a near death experience because of the use of the weight loss drug that was prescribed, by the way, through the medical doctor here in Scotland. And his liver gave up because he couldn't metabolise this properly. And these are the studies that were not done yet. What people are not aware of that in the past 60 years there was over 20 weight loss drugs that were approved by the FDA and put on the market and every single one of them was taken off the market because of the danger to life, every single one of them. Now, we do have better science, we've got better technology, we've got better ways of doing things. So I do believe that current weight loss drugs of this new era, 2.0, they are better, but there are people who are now using this for minor weight loss, for example, vanity reasons, rather than those people who are morbidly obese and if they don't lose weight, they will lose a foot. And this is where I start having problems with what people are advertising online. Like I said, oh, you just go on a weight loss drug. I've lost, I don't know, 20 pounds. You shouldn't really be using weight loss drugs for 20 pounds, you should be using it for a lot more than that. We don't know enough about it to say, yes, this is a good solution moving forward. And just like with nutrition, with general medication, every person's microbiome, remember that story, story about our universe, we all have a very different universe and our microbiome, our gut is more unique than our fingerprints.

Caroline: Wow.

Monika: Even genetically identical people have very different microbiomes. So that means that you can apply the same drug to genetically identical people, but they will metabolise it differently. So the drug will work differently on genetically identical people. Right. Because of the way that we have our gut health. So it's all these kind of things that are out there and trying to really advise people. It's, it's kind of like, you know, that wheel, hamster on the wheel type of situation. I feel sometimes I'm like that because I'm trying to be loud and disruptive in the way of showing people that exactly what you said, there is no shortcuts in. It will catch up with you. It will 100%. And it's just taking it step by step and going in the right direction. That's what's going to bring long lasting results.

Caroline: I think working with a coach and someone who can kind of help build your confidence and like build your skills, that's probably, like for me would make the most sense. You know, like I was saying, I've never let yo yo dieted, but during the pandemic I spent a lot of time sitting at my computer and then like nine months in I was like, oh my gosh, like I'm so like unfit. This is not even like sensible at all. So I started a… Well, I went to a trainer basically, who she does boot camp classes in her garden. And what a difference, like having that kind of one to one person to kind of help build my strength up again and build my confidence up again and like make me feel like, I don't know, maybe it's because I'm getting older as well. I sometimes feel like, you know, when you say to yourself, like, I'm too old for this or you kind of convince yourself that not you’re, you're past it, but you. I sometimes have this mental block with things especially like exercise related, where I'll tell myself, oh, there's no way I could ever do that. But actually when you've got a coach and you've got someone helping to like, step by step, just build it up so that you do then have the strength, you know, lift the weight, whatever it is, it makes such a difference.

Monika: It does. It's not just the guidance, it's accountability is the support. You got someone in your corner and you're suddenly not battling it yourself anymore. You've got support there.

Caroline: Yeah.

Monika: And a lot of people shy away from it because unfortunately we are currently in the situation of what people see as financial part of it. And they see like, oh, I have to pay, I don't know, £150 a month for this service and they feel, oh, I could do it by myself. But this by myself never happens, does it. So, it's, it's a hard one. My philosophy is health should be everyone's right. But at the very moment we're living in the world where health is a commodity and when you are deprived, you know, when you are choosing between heating and eating, like we're hearing these discussions, then it's going to be really hard to give even £50 a month for some support in order to get this, this help and the guidance that you need. So I'm, I'm trying to develop programmes that would kind of break that and help as many people as possible. And even now what I've done was created collaborations between personal trainers and myself where we work together to support one person. So I don't know if, you know, in mental health space there should be like a triage, you should be having your own point of contact with your GP, you should be having your mental health nurse, you should be working with nutritionist, you should be having support in community. So, you know, there's a whole system to support with mental health and that's exactly how it should be with physical health. You should, okay, you have your GP, who should be only a point of contact where there's infections or you need an antibiotic or you need some specific medication. But when it comes to lifestyle alterations, unfortunately, General Practitioner is not trained nor skilled to provide support or help.

Caroline: And they don't have the time.

Monika: They don't have the time. And this is where us, lifestyle medicine practitioners come in, where we're like, right, we do have it and we can take you by the hand and we can provide you that support just as the same, we give you the community, we give you the one to one, we give you specialised support that you need. And that's how we get this wholesome health outcome from a person.

I feel so strongly and so passionately about educating people. Yeah, it's not okay, you can't give me money, that's fine. Doesn't mean that I don't want to help you. And I think there's a lot of us like this around here in this health and wellness space, is that we want to generally make people aware of what they can do. So I offer 15 minute free consultations where people can book online and ask me questions. I have some people who have just messaged me on, on messenger and said this and this and this. I gave him like a two second answer. They came back six months later, they were like this worked like a charm and I'm so happy for you. You know, I never got any money from that person, but I managed to help them change their health. And we should all work in this way because yes, okay, we have bills to pay. Absolutely, we do. But I feel like if we collectively as a community move forward to help people be healthier, then our society is going to be healthier, then we're going to feel better, there's going to be less hatred, less insecurity, less crime and people are just going to be living in more like symbiotic relationships.

Caroline: I know. Because we'll have more energy to do the. Yeah, do the good things, look after each other.

Monika: I feel like I'm trying to create an utopian society here. Just try… everyone to, to be better for themselves in their minds and in their bodies because I feel like, you know, Good acts foster good acts. If you do something good for someone, they will pass it on.

Caroline: Yeah. And, you know, I love, you know, the work that you do at the university here and how much you're inspiring the students.

Monika: I hope so.

Caroline: When they go off out into the world and get their jobs as doctors and practitioners and things, I think it's just amazing. I would have loved to have had a lecturer like you when I was at uni. Far more, far more engaging and interactive than the lectures I sat through.

Monika: We learned my lectures were not, not nice either.

Caroline: But I mean, they weren't terrible. It just, you know, it's just what it is what it was, you know, you got through it so.

Monika: No, higher education has definitely changed a lot. And it's not just me. We've got amazing, amazing staff here at the University of Aberdeen. And there's so many people who are so creative with how they deliver lectures, how they're doing their assessments as well. It's, it's really moving into a different direction and it reflects in our student satisfaction service and also in the ways the students come back to us, which is my favourite part. You know, it's like they graduate, they leave the country and then two years later they message me on LinkedIn telling me everything that's happened and how they've done this and that. And I just, I love it. It's beautiful to see. It really is.

Caroline:, Yeah, oh, so special. Now, the other topic that we haven't really touched on, which I'd love for you to, to tell me more about as well as our listeners, is you are a powerlifter. You are like, yeah, you have some impressive skills in the gym. So how, how did you get into that?

Monika: Well, that's a long story.

Caroline: Yeah.

Monika: Okay, so as I said, I was overweight my whole life and I tried the standard things. I tried to go to the gym and just be on cardio machines or flirted a little bit with the weight machines as well, you know, like a leg press a little bit or something for the arms, but never really properly went into lifting because at that time it was just, oh, girls don't lift. Right. In those days it was like, oh, if you're gonna lift, you're gonna look like a man. So I was kind of fighting against those stereotypes, especially being a woman from the culture that I am. My uncle still says to this date that I look like a farmer because… Because I'm so built, you know, and I've learned to ignore that. But back then when my self-esteem was still pretty low, it hurt. Those comments hurt. When you've got the old generation who doesn't understand the new science, the new findings, the new ways of being fed. And I was, I was a single mum. I was just finishing up my PhD, was writing it up and I had just split up with a guy that I thought was quite serious and I quite liked him and I had like a year and a half old child. I was frustrated. I was generally so frustrated and I didn't know where to put this frustration into. I did all the drinking and partying thing when before I was a mum. And it's very self-destructing. It's not good. It wasn't good for my brain, it wasn't good for my body. It wasn't good for anything really. But I went through that as well. So when you live in Germany. Yeah. I don't know how my body survived, but I looked, I was looking at some point and it's like, you know, what can I do? And it was actually Facebook that recommended me, a random Facebook group that was called Powerlifting Women.

Caroline: Oh.

Monika: So I joined in and I was an observer for a very long time, a lurker. And I started reading comments, I started, started reading experiences of other women and then someone had a giveaway of their programme and I won it. And that was how I kind of picked up the bar for the first time. And when I deadlifted 90 kilo, like it was nothing [amazing] for the first time, I was like, oh, I'm actually strong. And that was me hooked. Honestly. It's just the, the whole journey. And it wasn't the physical journey as much as it was the mental journey that followed went from this frustrated, insecure person who is spending hours on a cardio machine, feeding carbs. I had an eating disorder because of that as well. And then powerlifting took me from trying to make myself smaller to learning how to take up space.

Caroline: Yeah. And how important your body is. To be able to do that.

Monika: Yeah. And working every strength. And being a single mum without any family or friends in the foreign country, I had to be strong, I had to be functional. So when I was training and I was feeling so strong and then I was able to hold my child in one arm and about three bags of shopping in the other arm and walk a mile with that, you know, I was like, yeah, I'm smashing it. And I felt so empowered. I felt so good about myself. Like, look, I can do it. I can indeed do it by myself. And it's just so. It was such a good feeling. And I feel like going into the sport really saved my mental health, and it saved a lot of things, like my eating disorder, because now I quite happily eat carbs, and I understand how to eat them and how to also cycle them around training and all that kind of stuff, and understanding that they're not the enemy, like people were telling me that they are.

So it kind of started off there. To getting my first coach, to getting my second coach, to winning the competitions. Regional ones and then going for national competitions. And then I was very grateful for everything the sport did to me, for me, that I also qualified as a referee, and I started volunteering for the sport and refereeing across the country. So it was absolutely beautiful journey. I have gone through various different weight classes. So I started off small, and then I went up, and then I went to, like, super small, and now I'm again up. And it's genuinely one of those things where I'm like, it doesn't matter what weight I am, because it matters the progress that I have in my functionality of the body. So I've built so much muscle in this time, and it's a slow process, believe you me. Like, you can't build muscle like people tell you that you're building muscle. It's a very slow process. But I've built so much muscle that now when I'm putting things on, I'm like, you know, I've got toned arms, I've got toned legs. I feel strong. When I go hiking, I can genuinely feel how my legs are strong and sturdy and solid, and they're like the safety thing, you know, for me, I know I won't fall, and I know that I'm not frail and I'm not that weakling that I used to, you know, strive towards, because everyone kept telling me the women should be small and skinny and, you know, agreeable. And I was never that. I was never that. So I found the sport. It really kind of resonated with that.

Caroline: Yeah, I love the way you, you completely lit up as you've told me that whole story. That is so amazing. So amazing. And strength training, actually, for women is so important. So important.

Monika: We know now. Yes.

Caroline: And that was like, me in lockdown. I was like, I need to work on my strength. You know, I need to make sure that my body can do all the things that I want to be able to do. And so, yeah, going to… going to boot camp is not, not the easiest of things to do. But I know, like, after I've done it, I feel really good.

Monika: Absolutely. And again, I keep telling my clients, you don't have to be a powerlifter in order to be strong or in order to build muscle. So, you know, I've got this tiny little weights here in my office. Every now and then when I'm just sitting in front of the computer all the time, I do 10 squats and I do some arm raises with those weights and just tiny resistance. Really body weight really good. I mean, not even a starting point. Body weight is really hard.

Caroline: Yeah, that’s what we do at bootcamp. It's a lot of body weight stuff.

Monika: Yeah, it's very hard. So if you try and do push ups from like zero, it's not that easy, is it?

Caroline: I’m rubbish at push-ups.

Monika: So, you know, people see me benching like 70 kilos and they're like, oh my God, you're so strong. It's like, yeah, but I weigh 80 kilos, so if I'm trying to do a push up right, I'm pushing up 80 kilos. So benching 70 is nothing. So just looking at movements from different perspective and maybe not to be scared of things, I think women still are kind of breaking through that. Although I am seeing more and more girls and women in the weight section in the gym. And I'm so pleased for that. I am so here for it. But the science behind that is showing that actually it is beneficial for our hormone regulation. Strength training is amazing for osteoporosis prevention. Obviously in all men and women, it leads to stronger body, stronger bones, which in old age is prevention of frailty. Less falls and falls are currently, I think, the highest reason for death in elderly population.

Caroline: Yeah, it’s a huge problem.

Monika: They fall, they break, and then, you know, they never heal properly. So if you are strong, if you are working your body and then you're 70, you're still able to walk around. And play with your grandchildren, if you. Have any, or your dog or whatever, go for walks to the park. Then you also have social life because you're not just at home unable to move, but you're actually going around, you're doing things. There's just so many things associating with having strong body and lean muscle mass. And I think there were some studies I've seen somewhere where they were saying that the strength of your legs is correlated to your longevity.

Caroline: Yes, I think I saw that too. Yeah. There's a direct link, isn't there? They can show or they can predict.

Monika: Yeah.

Caroline: Based on your leg strength.

Monika: Yeah. So I'll live forever.

Caroline: You’ve got legs of absolute steel. Yes. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I just love that. So it's usually about this time in the conversation where we talk a bit more about the overall theme of this podcast, which is creating your kind space. I guess the powerlifting is, is probably in that sweet spot of being your kind space where you, where you love to, yeah, let off steam and do things. But what other sorts of things do you like to do to look after yourself?

Monika: I just really found movement enjoyable from being someone who never moved to someone who is now able to move the body and the body likes being moved. I found this so enjoyable. So I go for salsa dancing.

Caroline: Oh yeah.

Monika: My partner and I do salsa classes. So, you know, it's kind of us thing and then there's salsa socials that we go to and it's dance, it's just dancing and there's just something about the social connection and great music and moving your body. It doesn't matter how rubbish you are. It really doesn't. I'm not the best either, but I just genuinely love it. So it's, it's that again, moving my body. I love it. My daughter and I, we love roller skating.

Caroline: Oh yeah.

Monika: So we've got our skates and we go place that we put all our protectors on and we just go skate up and down. Then we go for family cycles or hiking or, it's just that movement of the body that is genuinely bringing me happiness.

Caroline: Yeah. And trying lots of different things.

Monika: Yeah. And that's the key in everything really. Not just in exercise, but also in nutrition is trying new different things that's going to bring up that diversity of your gut health. And when you're doing like social things again, trying new different things, a variety of them. Whatever you do in life, just try to diversify and don't just stick with this one single thing. And my own kind space is also allowing myself rest. And that's a big one. And that's the one that I had to learn because from my culture, from my background, from my family, I have not been allowed to rest. If you have time to rest, you have time to do something else.

Caroline: I can be like that too. Resting is hard sometimes.

Monika: But now I've learned how to listen to my body and when my body's starting to say I, I need a timeout, I actually respect that and I, I time it out. We've got Netflix binge or we do like a game night in the house, like a board game.

Caroline: Oh yeah, we do board games. That's so fun.

Monika: Just something that is not work, that is not business and it's not movement, you know it's just like rest and it's just that allowing really myself that grace, saying I don't have to be on a constant goal. The D. I am deserving of a rest. I am deserving of a break. I am balanced in things that I'm doing all the time. And whatever I do, that authentic part, that part started shining through and I started saying no to things that. That don't feel right, and I started saying no to people that don't feel right as well. And that was such a massive shift. So I think kind space for me is just every day in everything I do, I try to be kind to myself.

Caroline: Yeah, I love that. That is. Yeah, I'm nodding my head a lot here. I love that. Oh, you've shared so much. I feel like the… this is going to be one of these episodes where when I look back over it, I'm just. There's going to be so many points to bring out. Thank you so much.

Monika: I warned you.

Caroline: You are like literally such an yeah, fountain of knowledge for all of this stuff. I know you've got your website where you've got more information there as well and you have kindly shared with me before, like, you know, recipe ideas and stuff like that. So what we can do is we can make sure put links…

Monika: Yeah, absolutely.

Caroline: …for people so that they can check out your, your content. Where would be best for people? Like on social media, where's the best place for people to get in touch with you?

Monika: I am everywhere. So what I always say to your person is Google my name and all my social channels are going to come up. So if you're on TikTok, you'll find me there. If you're on Instagram, you'll finding there. If you're on Facebook, that's where I have my community. So if you just want to observe and look at the videos that I do, TikTok, Instagram are fine. But if you want to be a part of the community, ask questions directly, get inspirations for recipes and actually have other people around you who are going through the same thing, then that's Facebook and, and it's really good.

Caroline: So Dr. Monika Gostic. Is it the full doctor title?

Monika: Yes, doctor. Yeah, doctor it's a PhD. PhD doctor, not medical. Dr. And Monika with a K, which is usually the biggest mistake that people do. So if you just go Dr. Monika Gostic and then Google just throws out all the stuff that I do.

Caroline: Awesome, awesome. And we spoke a little bit about some of the support that you offer. Do you have any other new things coming up? That people need to be aware of.

Monika: Yes. So right now I've partnered up with personal trainers across, across the UK and Ireland and we've actually created the 21 day programme that is targeted for people with chronic conditions and or menopause.

Caroline: Okay. Yeah, yeah.

Monika: So they are designed for that and we're taking them through the lifestyle medicine steps to improve their symptoms. And also on top of that, every participant friend gets informed that we will be using this data then for the research at the University of Aberdeen. So we'll be comparing the efficiency of the approaches online or hybrid approaches and lifestyle medicine approaches versus for example a nutritionist or versus a personal trainer and how they help with specific chronic conditions. So if you are in a space where you're not feeling well, where you have a chronic condition or where you're suspecting that you have a chronic condition or and are petty and menopausal, then that is definitely space for you. It's 21 days, it's very non-invasive. It takes you 10 minutes every single day. And you get a personal trainer who designs things according to your time and your needs. And you get me who works with you obviously again according to your needs, what wants, allergies, time restrictions, whatever. And we work together to provide these holistic approach to your health.

Caroline: Gosh, that sounds really interesting. And the fact that as well you'll be able to look in more depth about like the benefits of that more holistic approach where you're working with different practitioners rather than going down the road of like only focusing on nutrition or only focusing… because, and a lot of it, do you know what, lot of it comes down to mindset and that, having that accountability and knowing that someone's got your back.

Monika: That's it. That's it.

Caroline: I love that. Thank you. So we'll pop a link to that as well so people can check it out. But thank you so much. I say this almost every time I do an interview. Like I could talk for hours and hours. But thank you so much for welcoming me into your beautiful space.

Monika: Thanks.

Caroline: Yeah, it's just been so nice to get to spend more time together.

Monika: No, it's, it's absolutely beautiful. And as you probably notice, I could talk about these topics 24/7. I'm just so passionate about spreading awareness and sharing my knowledge. So I do encourage anyone who's listening to this to come ask questions. I, I would do my best to answer them and just don’t be scared to be BAD. Balanced, authentic and deserving.

Caroline: Yes, we are all going to be more bad.

Monika: Yes!

Caroline: Monika shares some incredible advice, and there is one quote that really sums up everything that we talked about, where she said “let's really start feeling amazing in our body. So to the point that we are radiating that energy and happiness and it just overflows to our children, to our spouses, and everything else that we're doing.” Some pretty fantastic advice isn’t it? So if you’re feeling like you need to address the balance in your life, I highly recommend checking out Monika’s content and connecting with her, she is such a generous kind person and I am very blessed to have her in my life.

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Disclaimer:

The information on this podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. You should seek the advice of an appropriately qualified healthcare professional before making decisions about your own circumstances. You should not disregard, or delay seeking professional medical advice because of any information contained on this podcast.

Unless specifically mentioned on the podcast, Create Your Kindspace and Caroline Laurenson do not formally endorse or have any affiliation with any product or service mentioned in the podcast. The opinions and content provided and/or shared by any third-party guests, any third-party material or third-party website referenced in this podcast does not necessarily reflect the opinions or policies of Create Your Kindspace and Caroline Laurenson.